Leasehold extension and purchase in Scotland vs UK

_Penny_Dreadful

theredbull said:

Hi Penny.s

One solicitor has read, or so they said, and the other did not. Both stated that in order to convert I would have to approach landlord.

 They also both said there was no guarantee they would agree. They also stated there was no right to extend in Scotland. 

I have not approached as yet as I was hoping the ammendment would have passed.

I am also a full time carer for my disabled mother so we are extremely worried about the financial implications of the approach.

What’s the worst that would happen if you approached your landlord and they said no? You’d still have an 82 year lease allowing you to live there. I don’t know how old you are but wouldn’t 82 years see you through the rest, or at least most of the rest, of your natural life? 

There’s always the possibility that your landlord says yes. 

It's disappointing that one of the solicitors didn't even read the terms of your lease.  

1. Are there any clauses in your lease which speak to what happens at the end of the lease?  
2. How much rent do you pay for the leasehold?  An nominal (peppercorn) rent?
3. Does the lease impose any burdens on you involving maintenance, building use or restrictions?
4. Do you have almost total control over the land as if you own it but don't?

theredbull

Hi Penny, thanks for your reply


1 The first lease in the burdens section  is dated 1847 or so. I cannot understand the outdated language. The sub lease, from 1907 for 207 years is the non qualifying lease, according to registers of scotland

2 I have not paid any rent since purchase in 2005. No contact at all from any landlord, not once. My original conveyancer's firm wrote to the lawyer who we thought represented the landlord. I made a nominal offer to convert but there has been no reply in over 9 months.

3. I'm not sure but I think there are burdens about keeping the property in a decent state of repairs.

4. Again, not sure but I would say that the original conveyancer was happy for me to purchase the land to the rear of the property at purchase. There were two flats, which I bought at the same time, and a common interest with the shop below to the land at the rear
.
I bought out the shops common interest a few years after I purchased the flats. 

Sorry for all the complex information and gaps in my knowledge.

MeteredOut

theredbull said:

Hi Penny, thanks for your reply


1 The first lease in the burdens section  is dated 1847 or so. I cannot understand the outdated language. The sub lease, from 1907 for 207 years is the non qualifying lease, according to registers of scotland

2 I have not paid any rent since purchase in 2005. No contact at all from any landlord, not once. My original conveyancer's firm wrote to the lawyer who we thought represented the landlord. I made a nominal offer to convert but there has been no reply in over 9 months.

3. I'm not sure but I think there are burdens about keeping the property in a decent state of repairs.

4. Again, not sure but I would say that the original conveyancer was happy for me to purchase the land to the rear of the property at purchase. There were two flats, which I bought at the same time, and a common interest with the shop below to the land at the rear
.
I bought out the shops common interest a few years after I purchased the flats. 

Sorry for all the complex information and gaps in my knowledge.

Are you saying you/your solicitor does not actually know who the landlord is, or that you do know who the landlord is, but you don't know which solicitor is representing them?

You were asked above what you want the outcome to be; i'm not sure you've clearly articulated that.

I'm no lawyer, but I see two options here

• Somehow get in touch with the landlord and negotiate
• Since there's 82 years left, just let it go, but I guess that pushes the issue onto your descendants/beneficiaries when your time on this planet ends.

theredbull

My original conveyancer's firm believe they know the solicitor of the landlord. And they have made an approach.  No reply has been made.

However, given the advice I received from my conveyancing firm at purchase, I'm not overly trusting of their information. 

Yes, you're right it does push the issue on if I  let it go.

I think the issue will also make selling difficult also.

user1977

It would make more sense for you to contact the landlord directly (assuming you know who they are).

MeteredOut

theredbull said:

My original conveyancer's firm believe they know the solicitor of the landlord. And they have made an approach.  No reply has been made.

However, given the advice I received from my conveyancing firm at purchase, I'm not overly trusting of their information. 

Yes, you're right it does push the issue on if I  let it go.

I think the issue will also make selling difficult also.

Yes, if you do not see this as your forever home, I can't see there being much interest when you come to sell, unless for a hefty discount (eg, at auction and hope people don't read the legal pack)

Contacting the landlord might be your only option. But, be wary of any unintended consequences. eg, you've not paid lease rent for a few years - do you know if any might be due?

theredbull

I am aware of who the solicitor of the landlord is (according to my convayencing firm), not the landlord themselves.

MeteredOut

theredbull said:

I am aware of who the solicitor of the landlord is (according to my convayencing firm), not the landlord themselves.

Has anyone tried to phone the solicitor of the landlord and ask them if they do represent the landlord?

For something that seems to be causing you stress, there doesn't seem to be much urgency in moving things forward.

theredbull

Metered out, as you've suggested, Im extremely wary of unintended consequences.

I've also raised a formal complaint with my convayencer,  so im wary of approaching them also. 

How much of a discount would you suggest if I were to go to market now btw?

MeteredOut

theredbull said:

Metered out, as you've suggested, Im extremely wary of unintended consequences.

I've also raised a formal complaint with my convayencer,  so im wary of approaching them also. 

How much of a discount would you suggest if I were to go to market now btw?

I doubt anyone will be able to put a figure on it, as any purchaser would rightly want to understand the landlords position before committing to a purchase. 

As a starting point, I'd be working out what the cost of statutory lease extension for a property of your's value in England would cost, and assume it would be a multiplier of that.

It would almost certainly rule out anyone wanting to purchase with a mortgage.