What are the probate solicitors' obligations to benefactors?

RNVanStraaten

My mother died in early June this year. Her will left everything to me and my brother and specified a local firm of solicitors as her executor. Her estate comprises a house worth about £600,000, a few thousand pounds in savings, and that’s about it – no shares, no insurance policies that we’re aware of, and no debts.

I’ve found the solicitors’ level of service and communication somewhat underwhelming so far (emails unanswered and voicemail messages not acknowledged, nor calls returned, because the staff member dealing with us had left the firm!). They are based in Cornwall, where Mum lived, while my brother and I live in SE England, and since our initial face-to-face dealings with them immediately after Mum died, what little correspondence there’s been has been by phone or email.

I was notified by email that a grant of probate had been applied for on 31st July, and I understand from the Guide to Probate article on this site that it takes “up to 12 weeks” to be granted. That being the case, I would expect that to happen today (23rd October) at the latest.

I’m trying to establish what the solicitors’ duties/responsibilities are to my brother and I at the moment. We were told during our initial meeting with them that they would charge for their services “on an item-by-item basis” (with an example given of £35 per letter), and that the total charge should be “about £1,000”.

However, we’ve had nothing in writing from them, and I’ve since heard horror stories from friends about charges escalating into several thousands of pounds. As the benefactors, are they obliged to give us written details of their charging schedule while probate is in progress?

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated – thanks for reading.

bobster2

When solicitors act as executors they typically take their time - often out of caution.

At this point - it's less than 6 months since your mother's death. Not long at all in estate administration terms.

See this...

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg30820

P.S. You're "beneficiaries" not "benefactors".

RAS

Solicitors are always much slower than family members. Not least as for reasons of professional liability they will wait until they are sure there are no other claimants under the Inheritance Act, usually 6 months after probate of granted.

Just remember every time you contact them, they charge you to read the email or letter. And if they respond "Nothing new to say" that'll cost you as well.

RNVanStraaten

Thanks to you both, bobster2 and RAS.

"P.S. You're "beneficiaries" not "benefactors". *blush* D'oh! That'll teach me to compose posts at 6 am, before having any coffee! 

I take on board what you both say about the time involved and their right to charge for any responses, but are they also obliged to give us some sort of written notification of their charging schedule, if we request it?

TonyMMM

RNVanStraaten said:

 but are they also obliged to give us some sort of written notification of their charging schedule, if we request it?

( Assuming the will named the solicitors as her sole executors).

They don't have any obligation to discuss things with you at all sadly - they are working for your mother's estate, not you. Any discussion over fees/charges should have been with her when she appointed them as her executors. 

One of the downsides of appointing a solicitor to deal with what appears to be a pretty simple estate.

I'm afraid you will just have to be patient, and don't be surprised if their fees are more than you expect -  we were quoted an estimated cost of about £1500 for the work in dealing with a similar estate some years ago BUT with an additional 2% charge of the estate value. Needless to say I didn't employ them and dealt with the estate myself, which was a simple job over two or three months.

You can check if probate has been granted by a simple search on this site:

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills 

RNVanStraaten

Thanks, TonyMMM - that's really helpful, i.e. both the probate search link and the confirmation that we're "out of the loop". That being the case, I can stop worrying about not being on top of things, and leave the ball in their court.

Keep_pedalling

£1,000 sounds very cheap so I would expect it to to be considerably higher and that certainly won’t include selling the house.

poseidon1

RNVanStraaten said:

My mother died in early June this year. Her will left everything to me and my brother and specified a local firm of solicitors as her executor. Her estate comprises a house worth about £600,000, a few thousand pounds in savings, and that’s about it – no shares, no insurance policies that we’re aware of, and no debts.

I’ve found the solicitors’ level of service and communication somewhat underwhelming so far (emails unanswered and voicemail messages not acknowledged, nor calls returned, because the staff member dealing with us had left the firm!). They are based in Cornwall, where Mum lived, while my brother and I live in SE England, and since our initial face-to-face dealings with them immediately after Mum died, what little correspondence there’s been has been by phone or email.

I was notified by email that a grant of probate had been applied for on 31st July, and I understand from the Guide to Probate article on this site that it takes “up to 12 weeks” to be granted. That being the case, I would expect that to happen today (23rd October) at the latest.

I’m trying to establish what the solicitors’ duties/responsibilities are to my brother and I at the moment. We were told during our initial meeting with them that they would charge for their services “on an item-by-item basis” (with an example given of £35 per letter), and that the total charge should be “about £1,000”.

However, we’ve had nothing in writing from them, and I’ve since heard horror stories from friends about charges escalating into several thousands of pounds. As the benefactors, are they obliged to give us written details of their charging schedule while probate is in progress?

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated – thanks for reading.

'About £1000'? That sounds like complete nonsense even for a firm down in Cornwall.  If you have a copy of the will check to make sure there isn't a percentage charge on the estate provided for.

With senior solicitor charge rates up to 280 per hour and junior trainees up to £140 per hour in that region, just preliminary work before enquires, securing the assets, compiling inventories confirming creditors etc, will burn through £1000 in no time flat.

The forumites here can likely attest to the hours and days of work they themselves expend when obtaining probate on an (unpaid) DIY basis. 

kermchem

That size estate is going to pay IHT, with little free cash to pay it until house sells.  Was she pre-deceased by a spouse? Does the solicitor know?

RNVanStraaten

Thanks, Keep_pedalling, poseidon1 and kermchem.

kermchem -  Yes, she was pre-deceased by a spouse, so if I've understood correctly, she inherited Dad's allocation of £500,000 and hence IHT shouldn't be a problem (I'm going to make sure the solicitor is aware of this!).

Keep_pedalling - Your reference to "until [the] house sells" set alarm bells ringing. Up to now, I'd naively assumed that the house was being left to us to dispose of. However, I've now checked the wording of the will, and it does indeed say that the executors have that responsibility, with the proceeds of the sale coming to me and my brother.

This realisation is particularly disheartening. Last time I spoke with them, the solicitors did disclose to me that they've had three valuations carried out by local estate agents (I'd assumed until now that this was to do with valuation of the estate for probate purposes, rather than with a view to realising an actual sale), the highest of which is £475,000 and the lowest £345,000.

This is astonishing to me, given that the two (very similar) properties either side of Mum's have both sold within the past 5 years for over £800,000!

jem16

RNVanStraaten said:

I take on board what you both say about the time involved and their right to charge for any responses, but are they also obliged to give us some sort of written notification of their charging schedule, if we request it?

You should be given their terms of business which will set out charges. 

I’ve just been dealing with the estates of both Mum and Dad in the last 18 months. Similar size of estate is costing around £12k plus the costs of selling the house - eg estate agent fees plus conveyancing fee. I can’t see how £1k is realistic in any way.