Car Finance Refund

Waccoe1975

Hello 

Looking for a bit of advice, recently sold my car at the end of August, had it confirmed the finance was settled and closed down my direct debit. About two weeks later I received a refund to my account via direct credit for what I assumed to be the last monthly payment I made not accounted for on the settlement figure. I had had a previous similar situation with my last car so assumed was the same. A few days later I rec'd a letter from the finance company stating in writing the overpayment and that I have been refunded the money by direct credit accordingly. So naturally took that as the green light to spend the money (I haven't btw!). However received a phone call today from the finance company telling me they made a 'mistake' and they want me to pay the money back, despite the fact I have it writing that the refund is due to me. They haven't been exactly been proactive in trying to get this back, despite me selling the car nearly two months ago!

Am I obliged to pay this back despite having something in writing stating I am due a refund? They haven't backed this up with any evidence of a mistake, and all the advice on the internet points to them having no recourse to reclaim as they have put it in writing that it is due to me? 

Thanks!

MeteredOut

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

sheslookinhot

If they could demonstrate to me that a genuine mistake had been made, I would pay it back. You can make up your own mind, based on your morals, what direction you take.

Waccoe1975

MeteredOut said:

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

They say it is a mistake after the fact - they have written to me and stated 'here is your refund for the overpayment' and refunded to my account. I can only take that at face value, that I am being refunded for an overpayment. Now 6 weeks later, via phone call it's now a mistake? There is no moral ambiguity here, the finance company have refunded me and backed it up in writing. I'm not blindly going to take an agents word for it over the phone against something physically in writing - as I was once told 'if it is not in writing it didn't happen'....

born_again

Waccoe1975 said:

MeteredOut said:

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

They say it is a mistake after the fact - they have written to me and stated 'here is your refund for the overpayment' and refunded to my account. I can only take that at face value, that I am being refunded for an overpayment. Now 6 weeks later, via phone call it's now a mistake? There is no moral ambiguity here, the finance company have refunded me and backed it up in writing. I'm not blindly going to take an agents word for it over the phone against something physically in writing - as I was once told 'if it is not in writing it didn't happen'....

So wait till you get it in writing.

TBH. Maybe better to ring finance co on a known number & ask them about it. Just in case it is some scammer.

MyRealNameToo

Waccoe1975 said:

MeteredOut said:

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

They say it is a mistake after the fact - they have written to me and stated 'here is your refund for the overpayment' and refunded to my account. I can only take that at face value, that I am being refunded for an overpayment. Now 6 weeks later, via phone call it's now a mistake? There is no moral ambiguity here, the finance company have refunded me and backed it up in writing. I'm not blindly going to take an agents word for it over the phone against something physically in writing - as I was once told 'if it is not in writing it didn't happen'....

People make errors, and occasionally twice. 

Just because a mistake is made doesnt mean you get to benefit from it. I'm sure had the initial letter said you owed money rather than were owed money that you would have been contesting it rather than gratefully accepting it and then refusing to correct it when the mistake came to light. 

You shouldn't however be unduly be inconvenienced by it though so if you have already spent it and cannot afford to repay it in one go then agree a repayment plan, the law would expect you to be reasonable though and if 2 months ago you could afford £900/month on car finance to not now say you are only going to repay it £1 per month (unless you evidence a major change in circumstances) 

As for the calcs in writing by all means but ultimately if they haven't made a second mistake then you will be paying it 

Waccoe1975

MyRealNameToo said:

Waccoe1975 said:

MeteredOut said:

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

They say it is a mistake after the fact - they have written to me and stated 'here is your refund for the overpayment' and refunded to my account. I can only take that at face value, that I am being refunded for an overpayment. Now 6 weeks later, via phone call it's now a mistake? There is no moral ambiguity here, the finance company have refunded me and backed it up in writing. I'm not blindly going to take an agents word for it over the phone against something physically in writing - as I was once told 'if it is not in writing it didn't happen'....

People make errors, and occasionally twice. 

Just because a mistake is made doesnt mean you get to benefit from it. I'm sure had the initial letter said you owed money rather than were owed money that you would have been contesting it rather than gratefully accepting it and then refusing to correct it when the mistake came to light. 

You shouldn't however be unduly be inconvenienced by it though so if you have already spent it and cannot afford to repay it in one go then agree a repayment plan, the law would expect you to be reasonable though and if 2 months ago you could afford £900/month on car finance to not now say you are only going to repay it £1 per month (unless you evidence a major change in circumstances) 

As for the calcs in writing by all means but ultimately if they haven't made a second mistake then you will be paying it 

Fair comment, but as I write I have a letter to say the refund is correct and just a phone call from the finance company to say it’s a mistake. Currently that piece of paper trumps the call. This started September 11th, about 7 or so weeks ago. They have had more than enough time to pick up the phone or send an email to discuss and evidence said mistake. What is a reasonable amount of time to give the finance company opportunity to rectify the error? This call should’ve come within days of the mistake and had I had a phone call to discuss would’ve happily paid the money back. 

Finance company has not exactly been proactive here, to the point of negligence. Hassle I don’t really need right now.

MattMattMattUK

Waccoe1975 said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Waccoe1975 said:

MeteredOut said:

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

They say it is a mistake after the fact - they have written to me and stated 'here is your refund for the overpayment' and refunded to my account. I can only take that at face value, that I am being refunded for an overpayment. Now 6 weeks later, via phone call it's now a mistake? There is no moral ambiguity here, the finance company have refunded me and backed it up in writing. I'm not blindly going to take an agents word for it over the phone against something physically in writing - as I was once told 'if it is not in writing it didn't happen'....

People make errors, and occasionally twice. 

Just because a mistake is made doesnt mean you get to benefit from it. I'm sure had the initial letter said you owed money rather than were owed money that you would have been contesting it rather than gratefully accepting it and then refusing to correct it when the mistake came to light. 

You shouldn't however be unduly be inconvenienced by it though so if you have already spent it and cannot afford to repay it in one go then agree a repayment plan, the law would expect you to be reasonable though and if 2 months ago you could afford £900/month on car finance to not now say you are only going to repay it £1 per month (unless you evidence a major change in circumstances) 

As for the calcs in writing by all means but ultimately if they haven't made a second mistake then you will be paying it 

Fair comment, but as I write I have a letter to say the refund is correct and just a phone call from the finance company to say it’s a mistake. Currently that piece of paper trumps the call.

Neither trumps either. The evidence of the financial situation and the law is what matters, not a phone call or a potentially erroneous bit of paper. 

Waccoe1975 said:
This started September 11th, about 7 or so weeks ago. They have had more than enough time to pick up the phone or send an email to discuss and evidence said mistake. What is a reasonable amount of time to give the finance company opportunity to rectify the error? 

They have six years to recover the debt, there is no "reasonable" beyond that.

Waccoe1975 said:
This call should’ve come within days of the mistake and had I had a phone call to discuss would’ve happily paid the money back. 

They probably should have, but that does not alter the legal position.

Waccoe1975 said:

Finance company has not exactly been proactive here, to the point of negligence. Hassle I don’t really need right now.

It is not negligence, at least from a legal standpoint. I fail to see how it is hassle, you stick the money in a savings account and if/when they ask for it back in writing you repay it. You should be able to work out if you had overpaid yourself in less than ten minutes, the initial documentation would also show the end date and if you paid beyond that etc.

You seem to want someone to validate your opinion that you should be allowed to keep the money regardless, no one sensible is going to do that, mostly because it is the exact opposite of the legal position. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Waccoe1975 said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Waccoe1975 said:

MeteredOut said:

If you owe the money, you are legally obliged to pay it back, and they could chase you for it via the courts.

A mistake on their part does not make the money yours.

Do you believe you were due a refund?

They say it is a mistake after the fact - they have written to me and stated 'here is your refund for the overpayment' and refunded to my account. I can only take that at face value, that I am being refunded for an overpayment. Now 6 weeks later, via phone call it's now a mistake? There is no moral ambiguity here, the finance company have refunded me and backed it up in writing. I'm not blindly going to take an agents word for it over the phone against something physically in writing - as I was once told 'if it is not in writing it didn't happen'....

People make errors, and occasionally twice. 

Just because a mistake is made doesnt mean you get to benefit from it. I'm sure had the initial letter said you owed money rather than were owed money that you would have been contesting it rather than gratefully accepting it and then refusing to correct it when the mistake came to light. 

You shouldn't however be unduly be inconvenienced by it though so if you have already spent it and cannot afford to repay it in one go then agree a repayment plan, the law would expect you to be reasonable though and if 2 months ago you could afford £900/month on car finance to not now say you are only going to repay it £1 per month (unless you evidence a major change in circumstances) 

As for the calcs in writing by all means but ultimately if they haven't made a second mistake then you will be paying it 

Fair comment, but as I write I have a letter to say the refund is correct and just a phone call from the finance company to say it’s a mistake. Currently that piece of paper trumps the call. This started September 11th, about 7 or so weeks ago. They have had more than enough time to pick up the phone or send an email to discuss and evidence said mistake. What is a reasonable amount of time to give the finance company opportunity to rectify the error? This call should’ve come within days of the mistake and had I had a phone call to discuss would’ve happily paid the money back. 

Finance company has not exactly been proactive here, to the point of negligence. Hassle I don’t really need right now.

Where's the hassle?  Just keep the money aside (in the best interest-earning account you can) and pay it back if and when they provide proper evidence you owe them.  They're not hassling you, in fact, by your own account they haven’t been in touch for seven weeks.  The hassle is all theirs.

Alternatively, spend the money and hope they're wrong.  

sheramber

Your post asked if you were obliged to pay it back

You have been advised that you do.

But now you are arguing against that advice

Obviously you have not got the answer you wanted.