Giving money gifts with LPA

lindseychm

My FIL has dementia and is in a care home, my husband and sister-in- law have just sold his house which will pay for the care.  They have LPA.  

The house is well under IHT, proceeds are £265k with not much other savings. They want to gift some money from the proceeds to the grandchildren, as there may not be much more inheritance due to care fees.  As most advice I can find seems to be around avoiding IHT and ther wont be any on this amount, where do they stand?  I realise any large amounts would be seen as avoiding care home fees but would maybe £10-£15k between 4 grandchildren be a reasonable amount, or could they take more?

itsthelittlethings

I think that's an abuse of LPA and they won't be allowed to do it. What would happen if he ran out of money for care home fees?

SiliconChip

Did your FiL give such gifts to his grandchildren when he had capacity? if he did then it might be possible to argue that the attorneys are just following precedent, although that argument isn't a very strong one. If he didn't then it's a non-starter to do it now with such large sums (or indeed any at all).

RAS

Eer no.

If FIL was in the habit of buying the grandchildren a reasonably priced present for Christmas and/or their birthday, then continuing that would be acceptable. Otherwise, maybe a more token gift.

Likewise, even with dementia he might delight, perhaps briefly, in a gift from the grandchildren. Even framed handprints or artworks.

And just checking, was FIL married to MIL when she died? Any chance that her will included an IPDI trust?

lindseychm

RAS said:

Eer no.

If FIL was in the habit of buying the grandchildren a reasonably priced present for Christmas and/or their birthday, then continuing that would be acceptable. Otherwise, maybe a more token gift.

Likewise, even with dementia he might delight, perhaps briefly, in a gift from the grandchildren. Even framed handprints or artworks.

And just checking, was FIL married to MIL when she died? Any chance that her will included an IPDI trust?

He was a generous man and loves his grandchildren who are all teenagers now. His wife died 10 years ago so doubt there was any kind of trust there

lindseychm

itsthelittlethings said:

I think that's an abuse of LPA and they won't be allowed to do it. What would happen if he ran out of money for care home fees?

Thats what we are trying to find out, if they are allowed to do it and how much is reasonable.  Its just so sad that hes worked hard all his life and may end up with nothing to hand down to his children, which is all he wanted to do and why he was so careful with money

lindseychm

SiliconChip said:

Did your FiL give such gifts to his grandchildren when he had capacity? if he did then it might be possible to argue that the attorneys are just following precedent, although that argument isn't a very strong one. If he didn't then it's a non-starter to do it now with such large sums (or indeed any at all).

He did give them money from time to time.  They wont do it if its not allowed but its hard to find out what is.  If he had sold his house to downsize and was of sound mind he wouldve definitely given them some of the money, he always wanted them to have an inheritance, its what he worked hard for, not for it to go on care fees like my mums sadly did too.

KxMx

Personally I'd be counting myself fortunate assets were available to decide where & when they went into care.
  
The real sad situation is when your loved one needs a care home but has no assets to pay... Looking at years probably before the local authority will agree my mother is severe enough for them to fund. She's had 10 hospital admissions since February and is pretty much housebound.

I know it took a friend 3 years to get them to fund for grandparent with dementia, local authority paid for the maximum care visits available and pressured the family to call in on top. 
By the time grandparent had a severe fall & Hospital refused discharge home, multiple involved professionals had been saying grandparent needed residental care but local authority maintained they were safe at home.

Keep_pedalling

I would say other than small birthday and Christmas gifts no. His attorneys have to act in his best interests alone.

SiliconChip

lindseychm said:

itsthelittlethings said:

I think that's an abuse of LPA and they won't be allowed to do it. What would happen if he ran out of money for care home fees?

Its just so sad that hes worked hard all his life and may end up with nothing to hand down to his children, which is all he wanted to do and why he was so careful with money

That implies that all his assets may be required to pay for his care, and if that's the case then if the LPAs use the money for any other purpose I'd expect the local authority to pursue them for deprivation of assets if they have to take over paying for his care.

I_Love_comps

I am a deputy for my mother,  who has dementia and is in a nursing home.  
With being a deputy. I am not allowed to give gifts anymore.All her money has to be used on her care .

Now that your fil's house has sold he will become self funding. Which means your fil will pay a lot more money for his care. 
My mother' s self funding monthly fees were £8.000 a month.
Also you will need to provide toiletries and personal care money for your FIL.
My mom has now used all of her house sale money and is under her councils savings threshold.  Her monthly bill is part paid by the council and some from my mom. This is a great deal less than self funding. My mom has nursing home for 8 years .