Advice/Opinion on Extension build quote

pezza1972

Hi,

We are in the process of an extension build which is not too far off completion.

During the build, the contractor has charged us additional amounts.  Some of these we understand as it was due to changes in the architect drawing due to Building Regs changes.  The others though are what I believe to be the contractor under quoting or simply not quoting for certain items which were on the drawings (or for me are obvious).

I have double checked the "spreadsheet" that he sent me at the time and it definitely says QUOTE and not ESTIMATE.  The description itself simply says Double extension as per detailed drawing up to and including plaster finish.  We had asked for a breakdown but he never did.

"Extra's" that he has charged us for are (that we do not think are fair):
Electrics for Kitchen (we have asked what the "additional" electrics are but he either can't or won't break it down)
Electric / Gas Meter Re-location (we have ended up paying this directly.  He told us the quote didn't include this, but it is on the detailed drawings with the words relocate Gas and Electric Boxes)
Water Meter Re-location (not specifically on the detailed drawing but for me it is pretty obvious that this had to move as it couldn't stick out of the floor in the middle of a new room)

I am wondering about reducing Gas/Electric/Water relocations from the final payment.  All 3 come to what is left to pay (other than a few quid).  I think I should be able to do the same for the Electric for Kitchen but there isn't enough of the balance left to cover that and I know he isn't going to send me the money back, but I would be interested in other people's thoughts.  I have never been one to not pay my bills, but I understood that a "quote" was supposed to be a fixed price and since he hasn't broken anything down, this would be for the entire job, as he says, to plaster finish.

Will probably end up just paying but wanted to see whether I would be right to knock these off.

Thanks
Andrew

Isthisforreal99

How much are we talking here?

Are you happy with the work carried out?

For me, those 2 factors would determine if I was prepared to pay the extra, particularly if I wanted to use them in future. Good trades are hard to find and not cheap.

pezza1972

Well its a long story

I would never use them again.  We asked for some confirmation with the kitchen supplier and also told them we needed to revise our part due to additional costs they had charged us.  They then showed this to the contractor and they told us we had to cancel our part with the supplier, which we did.  They then said because they were no longer fitting our kitchen, they couldn't do their parts completely, and that we would now need to pay extra for the utility and also we would now have to pay them extra for fitting as they weren't getting as much discount from the supplier anymore.  It actually ended up costing us less to pay for everything including fitting than their so-called special discounted and "freebie" stuff, but that is a different matter.

The balance is 4k.  The Gas and Electric are suppliers that we have to use as only they can do it apparently, hence why it was billed in my name.  That came to just under 2.5k.  The water meter was actually done by the contractor themselves and he is charging me 1,450.  So all together, just under the £4k left owing.  The total "extra" was just under £12k but as I say, some of those were true extras and some were true unavoidable building costs

I shouldn't have paid all the extras to be honest, but throughout the build he has been a bit of a bully threatening to send people home if I didn't pay and as we have been waiting 6 years for this (partly funded by Disability Funding Grant), we just wanted it done.

Section62

pezza1972 said:

...
I would never use them again.  We asked for some confirmation with the kitchen supplier and also told them we needed to revise our part due to additional costs they had charged us.  They then showed this to the contractor and they told us we had to cancel our part with the supplier, which we did.  They then said because they were no longer fitting our kitchen, they couldn't do their parts completely, and that we would now need to pay extra for the utility and also we would now have to pay them extra for fitting as they weren't getting as much discount from the supplier anymore.  It actually ended up costing us less to pay for everything including fitting than their so-called special discounted and "freebie" stuff, but that is a different matter.
...

Can you clarify this - do you mean the complete kitchen was included in the original quote and you ended up making your own arrangements instead?

On the face of it, if moving the water meter wasn't specified then you can't really rely on it being 'obvious' that it needed to be moved.  Whether adding £1450 to the bill is fair depends on how much work was involved.

pezza1972

No, the Kitchen I had to pay for and also the fitting.  The utility room was part of a Disability Funding Grant and I had asked repeatedly to confirm if the Utility Room units were included in his quote along with the fitting and he confirmed they were.  So I was to pay for the kitchen and they were paying for the Utility Room.  He then told us that we had to cancel our kitchen order and not be associated with the kitchen supplier.

After we cancelled as per his instruction he then told us that he was now not providing all of the utility room and only specifics and that if we wanted what he originally agreed to, we would have to pay another 3k and an additional 2.5k to fit it or he would give that allowance back but said the allowance including fitting was only 1.5k

Regarding the water meter, I think it is obvious that you can't just leave a water meter propped up on bricks sticking out of a room which was once an external wall, so if it wasn't obvious to move the meter then I am not sure what he had planned for it.  I had also said to him many times at the start that "everything currently on the external wall should be moved to the new external wall".  So yes, not on the architectures detailed drawing but he was aware of it.  I am not sure of the technicalities required but I assume he took the meter and placed it about 2 metres away on the new wall on battens he added and I assume he re-routed the pipe.  No idea how though as I wasn't watching him at the time.

Section62

pezza1972 said:

No, the Kitchen I had to pay for and also the fitting.  The utility room was part of a Disability Funding Grant and I had asked repeatedly to confirm if the Utility Room units were included in his quote along with the fitting and he confirmed they were.  So I was to pay for the kitchen and they were paying for the Utility Room.  He then told us that we had to cancel our kitchen order and not be associated with the kitchen supplier.

After we cancelled as per his instruction he then told us that he was now not providing all of the utility room and only specifics and that if we wanted what he originally agreed to, we would have to pay another 3k and an additional 2.5k to fit it or he would give that allowance back but said the allowance including fitting was only 1.5k

Was this something to do with a grant condition?

How does this fit with "They then said because they were no longer fitting our kitchen, they couldn't do their parts completely..."  - i.e. who is the 'they' in that sentence?

pezza1972 said:

Regarding the water meter, I think it is obvious that you can't just leave a water meter propped up on bricks sticking out of a room which was once an external wall, so if it wasn't obvious to move the meter then I am not sure what he had planned for it.  I had also said to him many times at the start that "everything currently on the external wall should be moved to the new external wall".  So yes, not on the architectures detailed drawing but he was aware of it.  I am not sure of the technicalities required but I assume he took the meter and placed it about 2 metres away on the new wall on battens he added and I assume he re-routed the pipe.  No idea how though as I wasn't watching him at the time.

The builder could say it was 'obvious' you were going to make your own arrangements to get the meter moved, hence it not being in the spec/drawings.

Unfortunately you simply can't rely on things being obvious when it comes to building work - not least if there is already agreement that some parts of the job will be arranged separately.  If you took this all the way to court then I think the lack of information on the drawing will probably mean a 'win' for the builder.

pezza1972

 i.e. who is the 'they' in that sentence?

The contractors who were fitting the kitchen.

Was this something to do with a grant condition?

If you mean the bit you highlighted, this is just the contractor now being awkward because they (the contractor) asked us to cancel our kitchen with their preferred kitchen supplier and because they lost all their discount and they are no longer making £4k from fitting our kitchen (again, their choice for me to cancel the kitchen) this is why they are saying they can no longer cover the Utility Room that they previously agreed to.  The Utility Room was part of a funding grant.  I don't want to get to deep in to financials though and what the grant is funding as this isn't really relevant to whether I should knock the Gas/Electric/Water move off the final bill.  It was just a summary to explain why they are now being awkward and why I would not use them again (what the original person who replied asked).

Unfortunately you simply can't rely on things being obvious when it comes to building work - not least if there is already agreement that some parts of the job will be arranged separately.  If you took this all the way to court then I think the lack of information on the drawing will probably mean a 'win' for the builder

Yeah, hence the reason why I kept asking him to break everything down in writing, but they wouldn't (just kept ignoring it and telling me "don't worry"