Smart meter and economy 7 fail problem - Scottish Power not interested

QrizB

Whatdo said:

I will push for a SMETS2 5 port smart meter as the clunking solenoid ECH1 units are a weak link and possibly have a shorter life span, in my view 

The ALCS relay in 5-port smart meters is much smaller and less robust than the external ECH1, in my opinion. If I had E7 I'd rather have a separate external contactor.

Whatdo

Scot_39 said:

The ehc1 is essentially doing the same job as the 5th port on an integrated 5 port alcs meter.

It is IMO an integral part of the off peak metering operation and its nonsense for SP to try and say its your responsibility / equipment.

Mines even has a big  EOn sticker on it.

Its definitely AFAIK the suppliers scope.


My old5 port digital was replaced with liberty 100 smets 1 4 port and ech1 proteus contactor back when EOn was EOn, not Next spin off.


It could have failed itself, the 2A meter auxiliary  control cable or relay in the meter could have failed or SP could have messed with your alcs configuration by "accident".


I've had trouble finding an EOL date on government spreadsheets for the liberty 100 - but mine is 8 years old now.

As above if won't fix it - ask for them - insist on them -  doing an upgrade to a smets2 5 port - and then leave them to get a better deal and far better customer support elsewhere.



And get £50 if get a referral from some suplliers Octopus, EOn Next etc all had such schemes in recent past.

Thanks ..........  your pic shows the same layout and use of both units.... the schematic on the ECH1 shows clearly how the solenoid is fed... the the other blue signal line goes to ground (neutral) and thereby completes the circuit. 

Mine is also identically branded EON and it is not just a naff sticker. 

I also have just thought that maybe a reason why the DNO's prefer not to use an integral switch within the meter enclosure is the problem of arcing and wear on the contacts points which are prone to failure... EHC1 are rated a 100A they are expecting some quite serious load at switch on AND switch off even though the load expected with 5 storage heaters kicking in and out at the day/night changeover.

So with the sensitive equipment in these precious smart meters is to have the back EMF, ringing etc  as well as EMI external and could be the preferred layout method.

I am not privy the the failure rate of individual makes of smart meters but I am guessing that maybe even if they have the 5th port for econ 7 if they haven't solved an issue they will use an alternative workaround.

Neither do I know why Scottish Power does not understand the standard use of an external econ7 contactor..... so as suggested earlier I am going to contact eon it was their equipment and it is not now providing a 16mm econ 7 feed.

I will post how I get on....thanks to you all... cheers

Ildhund

Whatdo said:

I agree although the tag might not be accepted defacto as anybody can place a wire tag on equipment ...

That's why I made the comment about the crimping pliers used to secure the sealing wire. They will usually imprint an ID on to the tag, so it's possible to tell whether all the seals were applied by the same fitter, and possibly even who the fitter was. If they're all the same, that's pretty convincing evidence that the EHC is the supplier's equipment.

Whatdo

Ildhund said:

Whatdo said:

I agree although the tag might not be accepted defacto as anybody can place a wire tag on equipment ...

That's why I made the comment about the crimping pliers used to secure the sealing wire. They will usually imprint an ID on to the tag, so it's possible to tell whether all the seals were applied by the same fitter, and possibly even who the fitter was. If they're all the same, that's pretty convincing evidence that the EHC is the supplier's equipment.

yes I agree it is possible to trace a tag source if all the crimps are embossed with a unique reference, and it is a valuable point I will stress to the suppliers. I doubt there is much difficulty now claiming that this is the responsibility of the supplier/DNO, especially with all the valuable contributions made.

kind rgrds

..   

Whatdo

QrizB said:

Whatdo said:

I will push for a SMETS2 5 port smart meter as the clunking solenoid ECH1 units are a weak link and possibly have a shorter life span, in my view 

The ALCS relay in 5-port smart meters is much smaller and less robust than the external ECH1, in my opinion. If I had E7 I'd rather have a separate external contactor.

That did occur to me whilst I was posting.... you have made the point more concisely thankyou

Whatdo

molerat said:

The problem is that you have turned down their offer to come and fix it on the terms of "if it is not the meter (or their equipment) you will be billed" standard clause which covers all repair issues from all major utilities including BT and even the washing machine repair man - they have to tell you there will be a charge if it is not down to their equipment.  You have also fallen foul of thinking that the front line call handler knows what they are talking about, many do not think they own anything other than the meter.  Once you get an engineer on site hopefully they will know what is their equipment and diagnose where the fault lies but of course without further checks it could be down to your off peak consumer unit,

I would like to be able to persuade a frontline call handler that I maintain that this unit is their responsibility, however as you remind me I am probably flogging a dead horse.

A simple non invasive volt stick (if used correctly) on the 16mm tail feed to the econ7 distribution board or CU is similarly deceased both by day and night !

maybe time to roll on AI for the call centres...( controversial)  not the emergency services or doctors I hope just yet. We all know how online chat has improved dramatically over the recent year or so.

If I believe my query will be beyond the comprehension of a first contact I simple ask "Are you Human?"  the time will come when I have to use that on a vocal telephone call.

kind rgds

ps I still have to pay a call out for an engineer that the supplier is insisting upon to confirm it is the suppliers switchgear, will my supplier reimburse?

..

Swipe

I'd submit it all as an official complaint via email and then follow up with a phone call so you have it all documented in the unlikely event you need to take your case to the ombudsman. However, I'm sure once it gets past the first line of customer support it will soon be resolved.

JAJBAB

I have economy 7. recently had smart metre fitted it has two rates. day rate night rate. but since we had it fitted the day rate clocks up 7 KW hours overnight as well as the night reading which seems to be correct the metre was changed but still the same problem

QrizB

JAJBAB said:

I have economy 7. recently had smart metre fitted it has two rates. day rate night rate. but since we had it fitted the day rate clocks up 7 KW hours overnight as well as the night reading which seems to be correct the metre was changed but still the same problem

Welcome to the forum.

Can you tell us more about your house and how you use electricity? Do you have storage heaters and a hot water tank? Are they switched automatically by the meter or do you set their times manually?

It sounds as though you have something (most likely your hot water tank) set on a manual timer which no longer matches your E7 hours.