New car in garage for 10 weeks

Aylesbury_Duck

Another reason I'm glad I run older cars.  I dread the day that the next used car I buy has a load of technology in place of perfectly sensible switches and knobs.  It seems a ridiculous design flaw if safety features like demisting are buried in console menus that require unnecessary attention while driving and simply become unavailable in the event of hardware or software failure.

MattMattMattUK

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Another reason I'm glad I run older cars.  I dread the day that the next used car I buy has a load of technology in place of perfectly sensible switches and knobs.  It seems a ridiculous design flaw if safety features like demisting are buried in console menus that require unnecessary attention while driving and simply become unavailable in the event of hardware or software failure.

In a lot of cars now the buttons are software buttons now, so the button will not work if the computer has stopped working. I drive a Model Y and the things like demisters are really easy to access, or I just use voice control. 

Alderbank

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Another reason I'm glad I run older cars.  I dread the day that the next used car I buy has a load of technology in place of perfectly sensible switches and knobs.  It seems a ridiculous design flaw if safety features like demisting are buried in console menus that require unnecessary attention while driving and simply become unavailable in the event of hardware or software failure.

In a lot of cars now the buttons are software buttons now, so the button will not work if the computer has stopped working. I drive a Model Y and the things like demisters are really easy to access, or I just use voice control. 

...but with respect, they are not so easy to access if the head unit is not working, which is the OP's point.

Since you drive one MattMattMattUK, would this car where the head unit is not working be safe and legal to drive? For example, I know that windscreen demister/deicer is not tested for MOT, but windscreen washers are.

I note the OP said that the ICE worked perfectly when the sale was made and only stopped working because a software update at a later date screwed it up. That sounds like the dealer was not in breach of the CRA.

Who carried out that fateful update? My car showers me with warnings that the manufacturer cannot guarantee that errors in software will not affect operation of the computer and pressing the button to authorise the update is at my risk.
Chapter 3 Digital Content of the CRA deals with consumer rights around software, which differ from the rights in Chapter 2 Purchase of Goods.

MattMattMattUK

Alderbank said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Another reason I'm glad I run older cars.  I dread the day that the next used car I buy has a load of technology in place of perfectly sensible switches and knobs.  It seems a ridiculous design flaw if safety features like demisting are buried in console menus that require unnecessary attention while driving and simply become unavailable in the event of hardware or software failure.

In a lot of cars now the buttons are software buttons now, so the button will not work if the computer has stopped working. I drive a Model Y and the things like demisters are really easy to access, or I just use voice control. 

...but with respect, they are not so easy to access if the head unit is not working, which is the OP's point.

I do understand that, my previous comment points out that if the actual computer is the issue rather than just the display then they will not work regardless, but equally most buttons would also cease to work.

Alderbank said:

Since you drive one MattMattMattUK, would this car where the head unit is not working be safe and legal to drive? For example, I know that windscreen demister/deicer is not tested for MOT, but windscreen washers are.

On mine, a Model Y, if the issue was just the screen/infotainment then yes because they are on the left stalk and I think they still are with most cars. If the actual computer was down then no on mine and most modern cars because buttons on the stalk are still software buttons. However if the main computer was offline in my car then it would not drive at all, I am not sure if that is the same with the OP's car.

Alderbank said:

I note the OP said that the ICE worked perfectly when the sale was made and only stopped working because a software update at a later date screwed it up. That sounds like the dealer was not in breach of the CRA.

I largely agree on that, the only issue would be if the software update triggered an existing fault that would have failed at some point anyway, e.g. faulty memory that would fail when a certain sector was written over, issue with boot sector that means that it cannot recover from a full restart (as opposed to the car just being on/off). Hard to prove though!

Alderbank said:

Who carried out that fateful update? My car showers me with warnings that the manufacturer cannot guarantee that errors in software will not affect operation of the computer and pressing the button to authorise the update is at my risk.
Chapter 3 Digital Content of the CRA deals with consumer rights around software, which differ from the rights in Chapter 2 Purchase of Goods.

Does that actually absolve them from any form of responsibility, or are they just trying their luck?

born_again

Alderbank said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Another reason I'm glad I run older cars.  I dread the day that the next used car I buy has a load of technology in place of perfectly sensible switches and knobs.  It seems a ridiculous design flaw if safety features like demisting are buried in console menus that require unnecessary attention while driving and simply become unavailable in the event of hardware or software failure.

In a lot of cars now the buttons are software buttons now, so the button will not work if the computer has stopped working. I drive a Model Y and the things like demisters are really easy to access, or I just use voice control. 

...but with respect, they are not so easy to access if the head unit is not working, which is the OP's point.

Since you drive one MattMattMattUK, would this car where the head unit is not working be safe and legal to drive? For example, I know that windscreen demister/deicer is not tested for MOT, but windscreen washers are.

I note the OP said that the ICE worked perfectly when the sale was made and only stopped working because a software update at a later date screwed it up. That sounds like the dealer was not in breach of the CRA.

Who carried out that fateful update? My car showers me with warnings that the manufacturer cannot guarantee that errors in software will not affect operation of the computer and pressing the button to authorise the update is at my risk.
Chapter 3 Digital Content of the CRA deals with consumer rights around software, which differ from the rights in Chapter 2 Purchase of Goods.

Screen washers are on a stalk as per many cars.

Alderbank

MattMattMattUK said:

Alderbank said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Another reason I'm glad I run older cars.  I dread the day that the next used car I buy has a load of technology in place of perfectly sensible switches and knobs.  It seems a ridiculous design flaw if safety features like demisting are buried in console menus that require unnecessary attention while driving and simply become unavailable in the event of hardware or software failure.

In a lot of cars now the buttons are software buttons now, so the button will not work if the computer has stopped working. I drive a Model Y and the things like demisters are really easy to access, or I just use voice control. 

...but with respect, they are not so easy to access if the head unit is not working, which is the OP's point.

Alderbank said:

Since you drive one MattMattMattUK, would this car where the head unit is not working be safe and legal to drive? For example, I know that windscreen demister/deicer is not tested for MOT, but windscreen washers are.

Alderbank said:

I note the OP said that the ICE worked perfectly when the sale was made and only stopped working because a software update at a later date screwed it up. That sounds like the dealer was not in breach of the CRA.

Alderbank said:

Who carried out that fateful update? My car showers me with warnings that the manufacturer cannot guarantee that errors in software will not affect operation of the computer and pressing the button to authorise the update is at my risk.
Chapter 3 Digital Content of the CRA deals with consumer rights around software, which differ from the rights in Chapter 2 Purchase of Goods.

Does that actually absolve them from any form of responsibility, or are they just trying their luck?

That's a very good question.

I think it is covered in s(47) of Chapter 3: Digital Content: Liability that cannot be excluded or restricted

MattMattMattUK

Just adding in for clarity when I said software buttons I actually meant the physical buttons in the car not buttons on the main screen. Gone are the days when the button/switch/dial directly alters anything, they are data driven switches that report to the main computer which then switches everything via the central bus and control system. So whilst there might be a physical button any action resulting from it being pressed is driven by software on the main computer.