Silver - anyone investing currently? Advice welcome.

Harry227

I started to buy some Gold Britannias last year, more as a fall back store of wealth if my mainly ISA cash savings collapsed or got majorly hammered due to fiat currency issues, inflationary issues, etc. At the moment these represent maybe 5% of my total 'savings'.

While each gold coin has markedly improved in value (or is that the £/fiat currency which have devalued?), I'm really only seeing these as an alternative store of wealth rather than an investment per se.

Now I'm wondering if I should diversify into other metals, particularly silver, especially as if I buy more gold now I'll  pass the £10,000 annual limit that has to be reported to HMRC.  I'm considering Silver Britannias.  Yes, there's vat to pay on these; silver prices are much more variable, but if our currency does really go pear shape the Britannias lower value per coin might mean they're more 'tradable' during any crisis, so avoiding having to exchange gold for worthless fiat, during the crisis. 

Is there anything to watch out for when buying silver bullion, such as age of coins, purity, etc.?  I'd only be purchasing from reputable Uk dealers like Chards, Atkinsons, Bullionbypost, the Royal Mint etc.

Also, the Royal Mint re gold, has always been a costly premium, but I've noticed that they appear to be more competitive with silver (or am I labouring under a misapprehension?) For example: currently as I type the RM are offering Britannia 2026 1 oz Silver Bullion twenty-five coin tube at £1388.40 (including VAT but not delivery) while Bullionbypost have them at £1514 (including vat and delivery).

Brie

And for comparison - what are people buying them for?

surreysaver

The price of precious metals is at a record high lately. So if you want to sell, do it now. If I wanted to buy, I'd probably leave it (although when I bought my first Sovereign about 20 years ago I wish I'd bought more).
And silver attracts the taxman in a way that gold doesn't 

Harry227

Brie said:

And for comparison - what are people buying them for?

Good question.  For me, it's a bit of a fall back/just in case option.  If they all turn out to be worthless, it'll be massively annoying, but not disastrous, financially. It's a bit like gambling, only play if you are prepared to lose the lot.  Never bet your shirt, and so forth.  If the current international debt bubble does burst, if the dollar crashes, if, if....and our fiat cash becomes worthless, then as in other countries, people will race to buy tangible assets asap to try and lock in their money/savings.  The coins themselves are of course worthless in the sense you can't eat them, do a great deal of anything useful, industrially (certainly not in such low quantities).  If (that 'if 'again) silver values soar, then they are tradable, small, portable, snippets of wealth. Personally, I hope their value doesn't go up any further and that nothing awful happens financially globally - that would be the ideal (but I still want a hedge!).  I've been relatively poor for large parts of my life (working-class; then a student; then a trainee; then a mortgage-slave...) but have worked hard and saved hard, and like many people, would like modest financial security for the future.

ColdIron

You need a lot of silver to match gold, about 80/1 by value

If you buy the same value as your gold keep it on the ground floor

subjecttocontract

Im happy to hold some gold & silver. Its current value represents approx' 1% of my cash holdings. Most of it was bought years ago when prices were considerably lower. I'm not interested in selling or buying at current rates and wouldn't want to increase my percentage. 

DRS1

Have you considered buying ETFs (or are they ETCs?) instead of the physical metals.  No VAT on the silver versions of ETFs.

I suppose it depends what you think you will be doing with the coins.

Harry227

DRS1 said:

Have you considered buying ETFs (or are they ETCs?) instead of the physical metals.  No VAT on the silver versions of ETFs.

I suppose it depends what you think you will be doing with the coins.

I've read about those.  For me personally however, I'd rather have something physically tangible near to me.  And anything digital is also a 'no'.

I was reading how in 1933 (I think) in the US, gold holdings by private individuals became illegal (I'm not sure what they did about gold jewellery) and had to be handed over to the US Government, for which people were paid in US dollars.  President FDR then promptly devalued the US dollar by 40%, thereby effectively taxing everyone!  It wasn't until 1971 that holding gold was made legal again. Part of the problem in 1931 was that Americans were withdrawing their gold and currency from the beleaguered banking system which was declared "a national emergency." That of course could never happen here!  But, if I had any gold being held for me by a company or institution in the UK, I would ponder on that it could be readily confiscated and forced exchange for ££££. It happened before. 

wmb194

Harry227 said:

DRS1 said:

Have you considered buying ETFs (or are they ETCs?) instead of the physical metals.  No VAT on the silver versions of ETFs.

I suppose it depends what you think you will be doing with the coins.

I've read about those.  For me personally however, I'd rather have something physically tangible near to me.  And anything digital is also a 'no'.

I was reading how in 1933 (I think) in the US, gold holdings by private individuals became illegal (I'm not sure what they did about gold jewellery) and had to be handed over to the US Government, for which people were paid in US dollars.  President FDR then promptly devalued the US dollar by 40%, thereby effectively taxing everyone!  It wasn't until 1971 that holding gold was made legal again. Part of the problem in 1931 was that Americans were withdrawing their gold and currency from the beleaguered banking system which was declared "a national emergency." That of course could never happen here!  But, if I had any gold being held for me by a company or institution in the UK, I would ponder on that it could be readily confiscated and forced exchange for ££££. It happened before. 

But it mattered a lot more back then because economies were on a version of the gold standard. These days why would governments need to confiscate gold? It's just another speculative asset.

Harry227

wmb194 said:

Harry227 said:

DRS1 said:

Have you considered buying ETFs (or are they ETCs?) instead of the physical metals.  No VAT on the silver versions of ETFs.

I suppose it depends what you think you will be doing with the coins.

I've read about those.  For me personally however, I'd rather have something physically tangible near to me.  And anything digital is also a 'no'.

I was reading how in 1933 (I think) in the US, gold holdings by private individuals became illegal (I'm not sure what they did about gold jewellery) and had to be handed over to the US Government, for which people were paid in US dollars.  President FDR then promptly devalued the US dollar by 40%, thereby effectively taxing everyone!  It wasn't until 1971 that holding gold was made legal again. Part of the problem in 1931 was that Americans were withdrawing their gold and currency from the beleaguered banking system which was declared "a national emergency." That of course could never happen here!  But, if I had any gold being held for me by a company or institution in the UK, I would ponder on that it could be readily confiscated and forced exchange for ££££. It happened before. 

But it mattered a lot more back then because economies were on a version of the gold standard. These days why would governments need to confiscate gold? It's just another speculative asset.

You could very well be right.  But with the unprecedented massive International debt of largely Western countries being likely unsustainable, and with China amassing gold over the last few decades, possibly to challenge the US$, a return to a version of the gold standard may very well be a possibility.  Recently, there have been doubts expressed about the quantity and quality of the USA's own gold reserves. Added that authoritarian countries appear to be upset by the US using its currency to coerce politically (such as banning Russia from the Swift system) then something is likely to change on the international finance field - or maybe not!  As I said, it's prudent to hedge, but obviously we all have our own views, risk levels and act accordingly.  Going back to my OP, I do feel silver is a more marginal 'bet', but maybe one worth taking for some and wanted to hear views on its purchase as I have found this forum to be a very helpful source of different perspectives. 

wmb194

Harry227 said:

wmb194 said:

Harry227 said:

DRS1 said:

Have you considered buying ETFs (or are they ETCs?) instead of the physical metals.  No VAT on the silver versions of ETFs.

I suppose it depends what you think you will be doing with the coins.

I've read about those.  For me personally however, I'd rather have something physically tangible near to me.  And anything digital is also a 'no'.

I was reading how in 1933 (I think) in the US, gold holdings by private individuals became illegal (I'm not sure what they did about gold jewellery) and had to be handed over to the US Government, for which people were paid in US dollars.  President FDR then promptly devalued the US dollar by 40%, thereby effectively taxing everyone!  It wasn't until 1971 that holding gold was made legal again. Part of the problem in 1931 was that Americans were withdrawing their gold and currency from the beleaguered banking system which was declared "a national emergency." That of course could never happen here!  But, if I had any gold being held for me by a company or institution in the UK, I would ponder on that it could be readily confiscated and forced exchange for ££££. It happened before. 

But it mattered a lot more back then because economies were on a version of the gold standard. These days why would governments need to confiscate gold? It's just another speculative asset.

You could very well be right.  But with the unprecedented massive International debt of largely Western countries being likely unsustainable, and with China amassing gold over the last few decades, possibly to challenge the US$, a return to a version of the gold standard may very well be a possibility.  

Recently, there have been doubts expressed about the quantity and quality of the USA's own gold reserves. 

Added that authoritarian countries appear to be upset by the US using its currency to coerce politically (such as banning Russia from the Swift system) then something is likely to change on the international finance field - or maybe not!  

As I said, it's prudent to hedge, but obviously we all have our own views, risk levels and act accordingly.  

Going back to my OP, I do feel silver is a more marginal 'bet', but maybe one worth taking for some and wanted to hear views on its purchase as I have found this forum to be a very helpful source of different perspectives. 

BIB; zero chance. The gold standard is far too restrictive on keeping economies productive. The problem with talking about gold is you quickly fall into end of the world nuttery.

Gold and silver is all greater fool theory stuff and if I were you I'd be worrying that you're buying at all time highs and succumbing to FOMO.