Leak from my flat damaged flat below

WIAWSNB

Hi Limey.

Read your Lease deeds. 

Almost certainly it's as suggested by others above - this is a Freehold issue, possibly a Buildings Insurance claim by the FH if high enough (but I doubt it as they often have crazy-high water leakage excesses), or - for internal items - a personal Content's insurance claim*.

Unless you have been negligent, you are not liable. 

Politely - always - inform them of your understanding, and ask them to provide evidence for any alternative view; their 'opinion' is otherwise worth jack...

* If you don't have your own contents insurance, then add it - it's peanuts. And ADD Leg Prot. Jobbie jobbed. 

Limey100

subjecttocontract said:

........and the lesson to learn here is always buy a top floor flat then nobody can leak into yours.

I mean sure... except that it is my flat that leaked into theirs...

Limey100

As an update, the managment company is again refusing that they are in any way covered under building insurance. I thought it best to speak with them first about the issue to see if they knew how this should be handled, though it didn't get me anywhere.

I'll be contacting the letting agent for downstairs flat tomorrow to inform them that I do not believe I hold any liability and will not be paying for anything.

outtatune

Well, the buildings insurance won't cover them for the cost of repairing decorations etc, that's true. That's why they take out contents insurance. If they haven't got contents insurance that is their problem, not yours.

Don't tell them that you don't believe you are liable. Tell them that you are not liable.

subjecttocontract

Limey100 said:

subjecttocontract said:

........and the lesson to learn here is always buy a top floor flat then nobody can leak into yours.

I mean sure... except that it is my flat that leaked into theirs...

Well the comment wasn't directed specifically at you it was a general lesson learned about water leaks from above for the benefit of anyone reading this thread.

subjecttocontract

Limey100 said:

As an update, the managment company is again refusing that they are in any way covered under building insurance. I thought it best to speak with them first about the issue to see if they knew how this should be handled, though it didn't get me anywhere.

I'll be contacting the letting agent for downstairs flat tomorrow to inform them that I do not believe I hold any liability and will not be paying for anything.

Normally the lease requires the freeholders or their managing agents to arrange buildings insurance. The premium for this is paid by the freeholders as part of the service charge. The leaseholders are entitled to a copy of the insurance cover which I feel sure will include water leaks. Request a copy of the insurance policy from the freeholders if you want to check. But as you have no damage I don't understand why you are getting involved with that. You are innocent until proven guilty. It's up to everyone else to prove you have been negligent.....they wont, they cant, you haven't been.

There is often a twist associated with water leaks in leasehold property. As I say, normally the lease will require the freeholders to arrange buildings insurance cover. Often a freeholder will arrange cover and ensure the premium is kept low by agreeing to a higher excess for any claims.....especially water leaks. But this is often not what the lease requires, the lease requires full insurance cover. This means that any insurance excess paid by a leaseholder should be reclaimed from the service charge account held by the freeholder.

WIAWSNB

Further to that, it's unlikely the FH will make an insurance claim, as the excess for these are usually pretty high - £1k or so. But, the FH is still liable to sort this as you were not negligent, and that's what sink funds are for.

Limey, this is for the flat below and the FH to sort out between them. 

Worth, tho', reading the lease. 

Do you have any independent insurance on your flat? 

eddddy

Assuming you haven't been negligent...

• If there is damage to the flat below (e.g. walls, ceilings, floor coverings), that's almost certainly the responsibility of the leaseholder of the flat below. They will have to arrange repairs, and pay for them.

• If there is damage to the common parts (e.g. walls, ceilings, floor coverings), the freeholder is almost certainly responsible for repairing that, using money from the service charge fund.

But typically, the freeholder will have arranged buildings insurance which covers damage caused by escape of water. The insurance will cover all the flats and the common parts.

So the downstairs leaseholder and/or the freeholder can choose to make a claim on that buildings insurance policy - instead of paying the full cost themselves.


But...

• The insurance excess might be very high - typically a minimum of £1k, but sometimes it's as high as £10k

• A claim is likely to increase future insurance premiums (perhaps by a lot), so it may be better not to claim if the damage is limited

(The above all assumes that you have a 'typical' lease.  Bur you should check your lease, in case it is non-standard.)

Limey100

WIAWSNB said:

Further to that, it's unlikely the FH will make an insurance claim, as the excess for these are usually pretty high - £1k or so. But, the FH is still liable to sort this as you were not negligent, and that's what sink funds are for.

Limey, this is for the flat below and the FH to sort out between them. 

Worth, tho', reading the lease. 

Do you have any independent insurance on your flat? 

Sorry for the late reply. I don't have any insurance on my flat for myself, no. I'm actually getting that sorted today because I've had so much to deal with lately (My dog slipped a disk which maxed out her insurance among other pressing things.) 

The only reason I was asking the managment company about the buildings insurance as so that I could confirm what was and wasn't covered. Though the policy document doesnt state anything about the cover being soley applied to communual areas, the building manager has been VERY insitant it will not cover this situation. She is under the understanding that I must pay regardless of anything I show her to prove otherwise.

Eventually she contacted the insurer about the matter, CC'ed me in to the email and went on to say that I am desputing this despite being clearly told by her that it isn't covered! When they asked about what happened (Photos and all that) I explained and made it clear I only sought clarity on what the policy covers. Then the building manager told buildings insurance that I am going to pay for it!

Needless to say I've informed all parties involved that I in no way am liable or intending to pay for any of this, which the letting agent for the downstairs flat didn't seem to take issue with anyway. I even gave the downstairs letting agent the claim reference under the advisment of the insurer, who seemed to understand that I am not liabile too.

Long story short it all seems to be going in the right direction except for the building manager who seems to be doing her level best to screw me over, simply because I dared to question her.

Limey100

subjecttocontract said:

Limey100 said:

As an update, the managment company is again refusing that they are in any way covered under building insurance. I thought it best to speak with them first about the issue to see if they knew how this should be handled, though it didn't get me anywhere.

I'll be contacting the letting agent for downstairs flat tomorrow to inform them that I do not believe I hold any liability and will not be paying for anything.

Normally the lease requires the freeholders or their managing agents to arrange buildings insurance. The premium for this is paid by the freeholders as part of the service charge. The leaseholders are entitled to a copy of the insurance cover which I feel sure will include water leaks. Request a copy of the insurance policy from the freeholders if you want to check. But as you have no damage I don't understand why you are getting involved with that. You are innocent until proven guilty. It's up to everyone else to prove you have been negligent.....they wont, they cant, you haven't been.

There is often a twist associated with water leaks in leasehold property. As I say, normally the lease will require the freeholders to arrange buildings insurance cover. Often a freeholder will arrange cover and ensure the premium is kept low by agreeing to a higher excess for any claims.....especially water leaks. But this is often not what the lease requires, the lease requires full insurance cover. This means that any insurance excess paid by a leaseholder should be reclaimed from the service charge account held by the freeholder.

My intention was to not get involved in that. I explained to WIAWSNB in the post above this one what is happening with it but long story short, Building manager is adamant I should pay for the repairs and even if the buildings insurance does pay out that I should pay the excess (Which I have made clear to both her and the insurer I wont). Regardless, after the attitude she has taken with me I want clarrification from the insurer themselves that this is covered.

To be clear I know it should be, but after the honestly really antagonistic language I have recieved from the buildings manager, I want to be 100% sure and make sure she knows it too.