ES parking and Gladstone parking fine nightmare

cats_with_thumbs

requesting advice here for stressful situation with ES parking.

car registered keeper (not driver) was taken to the pub in their car.
this person suffers serious mental health issues and happens to be dyslexic which as you can imagine this situation has caused immense stress for them everyone else surrounding and supporting.

this pub has ES parking in their car park, no signs before you turn into the one entry/one exit wall that can be seen from the road, only after beyond the wall.

I was not driving, i wasn't even there, so I've taken my time to travel and go investigate the signage, go talk to the pub owner and now here seeking advice as it's turned into a one way attack and now fully triggered a mental breakdown in said registered keeper.

1: the registered keeper was a paying customer in the pub, thankfully paying by their card so have electronic statement of receipt.

2. the signage says to enter registration at the bar on an Ipad- this has to be stressed: no iPad was present at the bar, there was no attempt by any bar staff to mention anything about an iPad on two separate transactions face to face at the bar on said date or a later follow up I should add.

3. registered keeper later recieved letter from ES parking, and as per their letter, sent a dispute/appeal online attaching pictures of their bank statement showing receipt from the pub- to my knowledge, didn't actually write anything just attached pictures

4. absolutely no response from ES parking until a final notice letter was received in the post as if it had not been appealed at all.

5. I step in, calling ES parking (easier said than done) and admittedly irate about the situation, explaining no iPad or signs shown in the picture to which they refuted (there is a black square on a wall in their photo, you can't read anything on it in their evidence photo which only shows car entering and leaving, not parked next to any signage)

when mentioned that the keeper has sent pictures to the appeal, it was verbally acknowledged by the girl I was speaking too that they received those against the claim ID, but quickly the conversation turned into no further communication was ''allowed'' as I was told only the person on the letter could talk to them, and I needed them to call to give permission to speak on 'their behalf'

cue not being able to ever call them again because of my own working hours, travelling distances and the person not in any fit state to call them independently.

6. I go travel and investigate the pub in my own time, 

sure enough, nothing facing the road or readable as you turn in to enter the carpark.

one sign directly to the right after you enter above some bins which you'd struggle to see or assume was for parking, one on the left side on pub building wall, with plenty scattered about down the far end where the vehicle was not driven or parked.
fair enough, they have signs, they should have probably seen that, but it's text is small and more to the point, has in their own writing exactly was was argued with ES parking representative upon my initial involvement being that it states to use the IPad at the bar to input registration.

upon my visit, outside of the pubs working hours I attracted attention to which the owner came to greet me, pointing out all signs around and a new chalkboard next to the entrance with some instructions about parking (to do over the phone?!?!) 
 they acknowledged that it was possible the iPad situation I explained was truthful and instructed to bring the final notice to them along with proof of being a customer where there would take care of the situation as this shouldn't have happened being a paying customer.

7. returning to these instructions on the evening or following day (this I have no involvement with) the letter of final notice was left with the owner of the pub, who promised the situation would be resolved, that was that or so it was thought 

8. now a letter from Gladstone solicitors has been received threatening CCJ and a £170 cost to pay to avoid court.

9. I have personally returned with the registered keeper to the pub to liaise with the pub owner who confirmed they had done everything they could do with ES parking to resolve the situation and assumed that was sorted but clearly, nothing happened and now there is a letter from Gladstone and the pub owner can not help with this.
on our visit, there was also no iPad, no mention of iPad, no questioning of car reg when going to the bar.

10. the letter states 30 days to respond of which I now have only 5 days left to do (I am again, just trying to help out here, mental breakdown happening takes priority over this clearly) 

the letter instructions state it can be disputed on Gladstone website, but that requires a lot of data to ''sign up'', full name , address, email, telephone number, the full works.

I have not done this, the registered keeper certainly can't do this.

so how do I even proceed?

I am essentially at a point I'm going to have to pay on a credit card on behalf of the keeper to avoid any threat of court, trying to speak to anyone seems impossible and no amount of disputes have done anything so far .

Gr1pr

No need to pay anyone 

Your story is slightly flawed 

You state that you are the Registered Keeper and were taken to the pub, then you say that you are NOT the Registered Keeper and were not present,  then surely it's nothing to do with you,  so a few questions requiring yes no answers please 

1) Is it your name on the letters from EPS and from Gladstones   ?

2) are you the Registered Keeper  ?  ( name on the V5c log book   )  

3) if you are not the Registered keeper or driver, why are you involved   ?

4) are you the driver on that incident date ?

5) are you a passenger   ?  ( occupant of the vehicle   ?  )

6) I presume that the VRM could not be entered into the Ipad or Tablet   ?

7)  have you or anyone else complained about it to the pub to get it cancelled   ?

8) was the Gladstones letter a Letter of Claim giving you or someone else 30 days notice to respond  ?

Help us to help you, try to keep it simple for the time being

cats_with_thumbs

Gr1pr said:

No need to pay anyone 

Your story is slightly flawed 

You state that you are the Registered Keeper and were taken to the pub, then you say that you are NOT the Registered Keeper and were not present,  then surely it's nothing to do with you,  so a few questions requiring yes no answers please 

1) Is it your name on the letters from EPS and from Gladstones   ?

2) are you the Registered Keeper  ?  ( name on the V5c log book   )  

3) if you are not the Registered keeper or driver, why are you involved   ?

4) are you the driver on that incident date ?

5) are you a passenger   ?  ( occupant of the vehicle   ?  )

6) I presume that the VRM could not be entered into the Ipad or Tablet   ?

7)  have you or anyone else complained about it to the pub to get it cancelled   ?

8) was the Gladstones letter a Letter of Claim giving you or someone else 30 days notice to respond  ?

Help us to help you, try to keep it simple for the time being

1. last name, not first.
2. no
3. no and no, involved because I do not have literacy problems.
4. no, not at all.
5. again no, my only knowledge of this situation started with a cry for help.
6. there was simply NO tablet presented or offered, nothing mentioned of the sorts, there is a chalkboard sign outside the pub now (after initial incident) stating to enter reg while inside the car park, suggesting it requires telephone instead of iPad, there was also no iPad 'at the bar area' like the signage states on my visit recently.
7. last time I visit the owner simply said 'they've turned the cameras off' but all signs still in place, still no means of inputting any reg to device in car park or the bar area.
8. this is the first letter from Gladstone's and sent to the registered keeper, set to recover the £70+ now additional charges to ''cover them'' for being involved (now £170 to pay) demanding receipt in 30 days before they start court action and CCJ with a breakdown of even more costing totally over £225

Coupon-mad

now a letter from Gladstone solicitors has been received threatening CCJ and a £170 cost to pay to avoid court.

Just a standard LBC then. Nothing new or difficult and there's no need to take so much time over this scam.

Use the reply in post 2 of NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST or the LBC reply in the MSE Guide.

Nellymoser

Remember you can't send the reply in your name, the keeper replies but you can assist him.

cats_with_thumbs

update.

before I could even copy paste the template, it was disputed with Gladstones on their website login that was forced to be created 
everything leading up to the current date has been honestly mentioned, multiple failings on E S parking process and correspondence put to them, complete neglect and failure to cooperate with the landowner also involved in disputing the case due to NO IPAD present, I don't know what more could be obvious it is their own problem to deal with their contracted partner (the pub) 

evidence of photos I've taken showing a chalkboard sign now in place to ''enter reg while in the carpark'' which was NOT PRESENT at the time. 
Which differs entirely from the instructions still on their own sign in the same picture to 'use the iPad at the bar area' which again, is stated was simply NOT PRESENT or requested on the date of parking.

long story short, I don't know if this is yet another copy paste don't read anything given response, but they have rejected the appeal in the same email that has been sent with the evidence pack requested 

first phone call to gladestones was to assess if they have actually read the dispute on their website and to question why it is only now being made clear the very first appeal was rejected, to which, I'm not joking, I was shouted over and hung up on....... what the hell.

in their evidence pack they have shown: 1: a completely untyped message stating that registered keeper was the driver, using words that's clearly a dyslexic would never use, this is completely false and was never claimed throughout any of this.

the very first dispute sent says no iPad at bar area and pictures of receipt from the bar, for TWO separate transactions, if that's not clear enough that A: no iPad present and B: staff NOT mentioning anything about this I don't know.

, fair enough, a dyslexic doesn't give a comprehensive account of correct spelling to their very short dispute, but it's clear money was spent in premises and no iPad mentioned..

now, here's one interesting, the evidence pack shows correspondence that until now has never been seen, this is the initial appeal rejection letter, this WAS NOT emailed and WAS NOT posted to the address, it's completely unseen and exactly why when the final notice was received (the only correspondence after first letter) that the landlord of pub then become involved.

two phone calls today to Gladstone's and I recorded the second (the first I questioned if it was recorded that it be played back in court, as it was vulgar behaviour) 

listening back to second, much more reasonable conversation, it's clear they have infact NOT listened to me on the phone questioning the lack of received SECOND correspondence, instead, without any reason of response to the new final dispute, refused and then demanded payment yet again.

so what now? the registered keeper has a mental health issue, a CCJ for a completely non fault parking fine when they are already financially struggling will cause serious damage, especially as it's not ever been put in THEIR writing that registered keeper was driving and it's not even clear who's driving in the photos head on from their evidence.
(an autofill/ assumption response field on e s parking to dispute is not in my mind fair way to be able to type a response to someone, especially for someone with dyslexia) 

if I need to seek legal assistance I'm completely out the loop of where to even begin, spending thousands to make some stupid parking fine through E S parking own error is ridiculous and unbelievably stressful to think about.

I was physically shaking after the first phone call, it's horrible to think what it would be like taken to court 

Car1980

Woah. You're massively over-reacting to what amounts to an invoice.

You're obviously believing all the guff that they put in their threatograms. They're written to specifically scare you into paying. And by engaging with them you're just getting sucked into an infuriating argument. They don't care about anything you say. They just want your money.

To receive a CCJ you have to ignore a court claim letter OR respond to it AND go all the way to a court hearing AND lose AND still refuse to pay after 28 days.

95% of all court claims are discontinued anyway so chances of "going to court" are remote. 

If one drops on the mat, you just use the template defence and your paragraph would just say the driver parked, saw the sign said register on the tablet inside and there was no such tablet available.

It's up to them to prove otherwise. 

Coupon-mad

You aren't risking a CCJ.

Nobody needs a solicitor. This is nothing to worry about and I have no idea why you went off piste and phoned them!

cats_with_thumbs

Car1980 said:

Woah. You're massively over-reacting to what amounts to an invoice.

You're obviously believing all the guff that they put in their threatograms. They're written to specifically scare you into paying. And by engaging with them you're just getting sucked into an infuriating argument. They don't care about anything you say. They just want your money.

To receive a CCJ you have to ignore a court claim letter OR respond to it AND go all the way to a court hearing AND lose AND still refuse to pay after 28 days.

95% of all court claims are discontinued anyway so chances of "going to court" are remote. 

If one drops on the mat, you just use the template defence and your paragraph would just say the driver parked, saw the sign said register on the tablet inside and there was no such tablet available.

It's up to them to prove otherwise. 

there was already a letter before claim sent from Gladstones (first letter from them) in the post, to which the website was used to send pre action protocol reply form disputing it and clicking to show the evidence pack

then an email received with the evidence pack and following message (my comments)

Thank you for your email dated x (I did not email, I used their stupid website) 

Please find attached the Evidence Pack which we trust to be self-explanatory (it shows clear auto assumption fill out claiming registered keeper is driver, which is not typed, and dispute made, rejection to that appeal letter which was not received etc etc)

Our Client is therefore satisfied the case against you should proceed unless the debt owing of £170.00 is discharged in full. To ensure no further action is taken, you should make payment on or before x -soon- (it is like they read nothing of the pre action protocol reply, why would they waste the courts time when it's their error multiple times over) 

 

If you do not make payment, we are instructed to issue legal proceedings to recover the outstanding balance in full. Should it become necessary to issue legal proceedings, we suggest you follow the steps on the claim form upon receipt of the same. 

---end

I don't want this to keep escalating, the landlord will be getting another visit from me tomorrow to discuss exactly why this continues despite their own intervention to remove it.

if anyone bothered to read the pre action protocol that was sent and look at photographic evidence then they surely wouldn't continue to harass for payment that's from non fault, this cannot get to court as the registered keeper is in no fit state of mind to deal with that  

Coupon-mad

this cannot get to court as the registered keeper is in no fit state of mind to deal with that.

Sorry but it is and that IS what you want.

jd576

cats_with_thumbs said:

this cannot get to court as the registered keeper is in no fit state of mind to deal with that 

My knowledge of this is limited to the purely theoretical and I'm sure others here know better, but if this progresses to a court claim, the person being pursued could qualify as a protected party (an adult who is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity) and that you can lodge an application to be a litigation friend. 

You would file a certificate of suitability, probably with a letter from a GP or psychologist confirming the impact of the dyslexia on the person's capacity to conduct litigation. Once you've done this, you can manage the process on their behalf.