Electrical Periodic Inspection repair bill

brightontraveller

Chapter 41 Direct contact now refers to basic protection and indirect contact is called fault protection
RCD required for sockets for general use as well as mobile equipment t all sockets would need to be covered…… If a split load board with 100a mains incomer 30 ma Rcd would cover sockets this could cause a lot of nuisance tripping e.g. a fault on an appliance down stairs would result in all sockets covered by RCD tripping (going off)
You would be better to have single RCD for down stairs and single for up the cost would be thirty odd pounds extra or if finance do not allow at present check which make of consumer unit is being installed although some are much cheaper to buy fully loaded when you wish to replace single MCB /RCD]s they can be quite expensive If the Person/company is registered through ECA, NAPIT, BSI, ELECSA ,NICEIC or any other approved Scheme provider they should be aware of regulation changes

robby-01

[quote=brightontraveller;7

17th edition is due to come into affect form June 1st 2008 so any circuit designed after that should comply to the 17th version of BS 7671 you should make sure the what the electrician is putting in take's account of regulations that will in affect as of 1st June, If he does not your installation would not meet regulations in 6mths time [/quote]
The new regulations are not retrospective.If the op has the work carried out before the 1st of june it can be carried out legally to the current regulations.
Work carried out now does not have to meet the requirements of future regulations.
It may make more sense in this case to have the work carried out to the current rather than the new regulations.

brightontraveller

No the new regulations are not retrospective and the OP is under no obligation to have any of the works carried out … as bringing the installation to new regs which until June are not statutory but as from the 1st of Jan or before they have been known and it would not cost anymore money to do so why would you not want to ? as the installation would meet the new regs just wonder why it makes more sense to meet old rather than new ? what date would you recommend if a person was to have electrical works carried out that they take into account the new regs ????

robby-01

brightontraveller wrote: »

No the new regulations are not retrospective and the OP is under no obligation to have any of the works carried out … as bringing the installation to new regs which until June are not statutory but as from the 1st of Jan or before they have been known and it would not cost anymore money to do so why would you not want to ? as the installation would meet the new regs just wonder why it makes more sense to meet old rather than new ? what date would you recommend if a person was to have electrical works carried out that they take into account the new regs ????

Firstly stop shouting.
Secondly how will compliance with the new regulations not cost more than compling with the current.Any circuits being worked on in the bathroom will need rcd protection.
Is this free,Granted you could put the lighting circuit on the rcd protected side of the proposed split load board but that is not ideal so what is the answer a new mains board fitted with rcbo's at 40 quid a time?
A seperate rcd controlling only the bathroom light?That will look good on the landing.
Or a brand new split load unit for around 70quid which will do the job perfectly.


For the record if you read my post i say it MAY make more sense to carry out the work to the current regulations. If you are unsure then perhaps you should talk to someone at the niceic or the Eca.
I have always found the eca to be much more helpful than the niceic .
Like the last change in regulations when the 15th became the 16th there will at the moment inevitably be some confusion as to which is the best way to comply with the changes.
In the coming months the niceic and the Eca will no doubt be providing its member firms with information on the best way to apply the new regulations.

brightontraveller

With regard the issue of shouting I thought shouting was when typed in capitals if this is not the case my apologies but could not see anything in the site to say otherwise most sites its when its in Caps.....

on a purely financial basis as apposed to a safety one.... The RCD RCBO etc will offer better protection than not having them? Or only covering parts of the installation, doing nothing if you wish to save money? if your going to spend it get the safest system you can afford... that would cover you for the future, taking account of serviceability and ability to upgrade parts of your installation.... many companies doing a number of jobs will charge you a lower rate because the number of jobs as apposed to coming in and only doing one job....

I do not know the layout of the works or if it may have fan isolator already on landing which may be able to be used for RCD to cover bathroom depending on how bathroom was wired is always an option... the aesthetics’ are purely a personnel choice but myself would choose safety over looks

The information given in first post is from notes taken from recent meeting to discuss what to tell members but this was for NICEIC but grabbed notes from my brother with regard the new regulations I’ m glad you like the ECA :J more than the NICEIC as I work for them as a regional inspector and coincidently my brother works for the NICEIC as the same if the works are necessary or not would be down to the individual and I would not really like to comment without full test sheets reports etc but I have noted that if the estimate was word for word as the electrician has given parts of it puzzle me terminology used ? But obviously as he is changing the consumer unit the electrician will be checking and testing all the circuits prior to commissioning the new consumer unit and issuing certification and notifying his appropriate approved Scheme providers

Weather all inspectors etc or individuals are advising client’s I could not comment but many of my colleges are.... as to how I would propose works be done from a purely electrical safety viewpoint RCBO RCD on a purely financial one none of the works? Yes Split load board with RCD and RCBO protection really think its worth the few extra pounds could save himself £ 25 on the fused spur thats nearly the cost of RCBO....


As the vast majority of works by members of ECA and others is warranted in the event of failure to part or all of the new works it makes more sense to the company as they may be liable to bring installation up to current regs should it fail in 6mths for example and if they were not It could fall upon the OP to have to pay extra to meet new regs...

I do understand that there are many different types of members ECA NICEIC full members and those registered through ECA, NAPIT, BSI, ELECSA ,NICEIC or any other approved Scheme providers and information given will probably vary I can only honestly answer for what I'm advising people in my area coincidently I don’t think its much of a surprise with the RCD RCBO etc being introduced as one of the panels advising the government on new regs three out of five panellist worked for RCD manufactures…… or maybe they were really thinking of peoples safety.....

robby-01

brightontraveller wrote: »

With regard the issue of shouting I thought shouting was when typed in capitals if this is not the case my apologies but could not see anything in the site to say otherwise most sites its when its in Caps.....

on a purely financial basis as apposed to a safety one.... The RCD RCBO etc will offer better protection than not having them? Or only covering parts of the installation, doing nothing if you wish to save money? if your going to spend it get the safest system you can afford... that would cover you for the future, taking account of serviceability and ability to upgrade parts of your installation.... many companies doing a number of jobs will charge you a lower rate because the number of jobs as apposed to coming in and only doing one job....

I do not know the layout of the works or if it may have fan isolator already on landing which may be able to be used for RCD to cover bathroom depending on how bathroom was wired is always an option... the aesthetics’ are purely a personnel choice but myself would choose safety over looks

The information given in first post is from notes taken from recent meeting to discuss what to tell members but this was for NICEIC but grabbed notes from my brother with regard the new regulations I’ m glad you like the ECA :J more than the NICEIC as I work for them as a regional inspector and coincidently my brother works for the NICEIC as the same if the works are necessary or not would be down to the individual and I would not really like to comment without full test sheets reports etc but I have noted that if the estimate was word for word as the electrician has given parts of it puzzle me terminology used ? But obviously as he is changing the consumer unit the electrician will be checking and testing all the circuits prior to commissioning the new consumer unit and issuing certification and notifying his appropriate approved Scheme providers

Weather all inspectors etc or individuals are advising client’s I could not comment but many of my colleges are.... as to how I would propose works be done from a purely electrical safety viewpoint RCBO RCD on a purely financial one none of the works? Yes Split load board with RCD and RCBO protection really think its worth the few extra pounds could save himself £ 25 on the fused spur thats nearly the cost of RCBO....


As the vast majority of works by members of ECA and others is warranted in the event of failure to part or all of the new works it makes more sense to the company as they may be liable to bring installation up to current regs should it fail in 6mths for example and if they were not It could fall upon the OP to have to pay extra to meet new regs...

I do understand that there are many different types of members ECA NICEIC full members and those registered through ECA, NAPIT, BSI, ELECSA ,NICEIC or any other approved Scheme providers and information given will probably vary I can only honestly answer for what I'm advising people in my area coincidently I don’t think its much of a surprise with the RCD RCBO etc being introduced as one of the panels advising the government on new regs three out of five panellist worked for RCD manufactures…… or maybe they were really thinking of peoples safety.....

To comply with building regs if you changed the fan isolator for an rcd it would have to be sited at no higher than 1200 ffl.I cant imagine that going down well in a nice house.
Lets be right here there is no need for rcd protection to correctly installed bathroom lighting.From new it will not matter as there are ways to incorporate it into the installation design but in older installations the only way to comply with the new regualtions if you are working in a bathroom will be to retro fit a seperate rcd to the lighting circuit.How many older installations will be able to support that,there will be loads of problems.A simple job such as installing downlights to a bathroom has now from being minor work to something much more complex.
It is !!!!!!!!

brightontraveller

robby-01 wrote: »

To comply with building regs if you changed the fan isolator for an rcd it would have to be sited at no higher than 1200 ffl.I cant imagine that going down well in a nice house.

That’s incorrect…

This is not an light switch which is 1200 FFL but a safety isolator (they are normally placed above a door To help prevent accidental isolation and are used for servicing the Fan ) Placing an RCD in dual box etc next to isolalar if one exist would not make much of a difference aesthetically

Indecently the regulations for sockets must be above 450mm FFL there is no upper limit that I’m aware of? Weather it makes jobs much more is view point of the individual some would argue safety in the paramount some cost? You are in most cases under no obligation to change a installation as long as you leave as is……I believe that the general thought behind the changes in regs (if any ) is to bring the general safety standards up….. Many within the industry believe it will cause no end of problems….. and bring more cowboys than good western to the electrical game…. A time served qualified good electrician will come along his price could be four times as much to fit down lights for example than some of the non professional cowboys out there…. which could lead to even more problems only time will tell

robby-01

brightontraveller wrote: »

That’s incorrect…

This is not an light switch which is 1200 FFL but a safety isolator (they are normally placed above a door To help prevent accidental isolation and are used for servicing the Fan ) Placing an RCD in dual box etc next to isolalar if one exist would not make much of a difference aesthetically

Indecently the regulations for sockets must be above 450mm FFL there is no upper limit that I’m aware of? Weather it makes jobs much more is view point of the individual some would argue safety in the paramount some cost? You are in most cases under no obligation to change a installation as long as you leave as is……I believe that the general thought behind the changes in regs (if any ) is to bring the general safety standards up….. Many within the industry believe it will cause no end of problems….. and bring more cowboys than good western to the electrical game…. A time served qualified good electrician will come along his price could be four times as much to fit down lights for example than some of the non professional cowboys out there…. which could lead to even more problems only time will tell

So if it is placed above a door in a disabled persons property how would they reset it if say a bulb blew and tripped it.
Upper limit for electrical accessories is 1200ffl that includes socket outlets and switches .There is a clear diagram in the onsite guide.
If "safety isolators" as you describe them can be mounted higher then why are consumer units in new build placed in an accesible position.(usually in the hallway at no higher than 1200ffl) .This is in order to comply with building regs not just electrical regulations.So tell me is that incorrect.
If you think fitting rcd's above a bathroom door is acceptable then go ahead and do it.
Where do you think the most danger lies: From electric shock from a bathroom light or from falling off a step ladder in the dark while trying to reset the rcd that you had placed above the bathroom door.

brightontraveller

robby-01 wrote: »

So if it is placed above a door in a disabled person’s property how they would reset it if say a bulb blew and tripped it.

Incorrect again ?????
But if your asking how they change bulbs the same way that they would to change any bulb in a pendant or down light throughout the property that has blown or are they 1200FFL also? The Extractor may also be higher than 1200 FFL which should also be serviced at set intervals

robby-01 wrote: »

Where do you think the most danger lies: From electric shock from a bathroom light or from falling off a step ladder in the dark while trying to reset the rcd that you had placed above the bathroom door.

This OP is about the electrical side of the installation not ladder safety....
The hallway would not be dark as the bathroom RCD that you have said trips ???? covers the bathroom not the hallway? If you were worried about being in the dark you could have emergency lighting installed as many designed for disabled have ….. If you think you are going to fall from a ladder I suggest a course in safety and working at heights
The height position of the main consumer unit has absolutely nothing to do with the bathroom.... millions of installations have consumer unit under the stairs…..
If you are talking of an installation designed specifically for a disabled person that is not what this post is about? and you may find protection by RCD etc would be even greater....
Weather you think the regulations are good or not does not change the fact they will be statutory come June 1st and electricians and consumers can implement these prior if they wish....

Oh and one last thing RCD and the bulb blowing and tripping it... better check what an RCD does MCB yes RCD no so you have shown that you do not understand how an RCD works… which could explain why you do not understand the idea behind this reg ?


Each should be assessed buy a qualified person prior so any problems can be addressed prior to installation?

The OP has a choice of the regulations that will be out of date in less than five months or ones on June 1st

robby-01

brightontraveller wrote: »

Incorrect again ?????
But if your asking how they change bulbs the same way that they would to change any bulb in a pendant or down light throughout the property that has blown or are they 1200FFL also? The Extractor may also be higher than 1200 FFL which should also be serviced at set intervals
This OP is about the electrical side of the installation not ladder safety....
The hallway would not be dark as the bathroom RCD that you have said trips ???? covers the bathroom not the hallway? If you were worried about being in the dark you could have emergency lighting installed as many designed for disabled have ….. If you think you are going to fall from a ladder I suggest a course in safety and working at heights
The height position of the main consumer unit has absolutely nothing to do with the bathroom.... millions of installations have consumer unit under the stairs…..
If you are talking of an installation designed specifically for a disabled person that is not what this post is about? and you may find protection by RCD etc would be even greater....
Weather you think the regulations are good or not does not change the fact they will be statutory come June 1st and electricians and consumers can implement these prior if they wish....

Oh and one last thing RCD and the bulb blowing and tripping it... that’s impossible better check what an RCD does MCB yes RCD no so you have shown that you do not understand how an RCD works… which could explain why you do not understand the idea behind this reg ?


Each should be assessed buy a qualified person prior so any problems can be addressed prior to installation?

The OP has a choice of the regulations that will be out of date in less than five months or ones on June 1st

so a bulb popping has never tripped an rcd what crap.Mate you do not no your !!!! from your elbow now tell me is that incorrect.
IF you are anything to do with the eca then god help us.
I bet you dont have the ability to fit a plug without first checking in a book first.
I could take issue and rip holes in everything you have written ,I cant be bothered.
In case you didnt read it correctly you do not know your !!!! from your elbow.
I bet you work in local government