Flat leasehold ending soon but landlord wants to sell

AlphaCentauri

I live in a flat above a shop and there's also a neighbour - same landlord.  We've been in the properties for 20, 30 years respectively.  The 100 year leasehold ends in 3 years (2029).  The landlord has recently contacted me and the neighbour because they want to sell the remaining leasehold and want to meet to 'discuss options'.

It's unclear why they want to sell now.  I don't think the property would be worth much on the market with such a short leasehold.  In fact, I think its value would be less than the rent from the 2 flats over the same period although I don't know this.  

The landlord could have served us eviction notices and proceeded from there but has opted to contact us.

Needless to say, neither me nor the neighbour want to vacate.

Maybe the landlord wants to sell it on with assurances for us, the current tenants.  The problem here is that a new landlord would want to increase the rents to market rate which would be much higher than what we pay presently.

Supposing we remained in the properties until 2029, what happens to the title?  Presumably it defaults to the freeholder.

Earlier in the year, due to my low income status and the property's very low EPC (5 G) rating, I qualified for a government grant to get a boiler/insulation installed.  The landlord blocked this at first but I explained the situation to the council who then contacted the landlord and managed to get them to agree to the installation.

So, perhaps this is the landlord's revenge on me?  They've been trying to evict me for years but due to my resistance and their inaction, the situation has been stuck in a stalemate; they refused to carry out upgrades to the property and so the rent remained low.

Anyway, maybe there's some kind of legal challenge I can present?  Perhaps, the fact the council got involved might help.

Uriziel

Is there any reason why you don't just move elsewhere? It is their property and they can do with this as they please. It is not your job to decide whether they will make a profit or not.
If you cause them problems, are you fine with receiving a negative reference from them for when you do leave which you will probably have to anyway in 2029?
You also say that he could have evicted you but wants to meet to talk. So he is treating you like an actual human being and you wonder if you can force him to keep you as tenant? Will you be happy if he evicts you and then involves the council and court himself against you? Or are you under the impression that the council and the authorities are your mate down at the pub?
Just meet with him and see what he says and if he says that he wants you to leave ask him if you can count on him for reference to help find a new place. He will give a good reference just to help you leave.
It's strange how this guy has been undercharging you rent apparently and has saved you a lot of money and you are wondering how you can make his life a living hell.

AlphaCentauri

Uriziel said:

Is there any reason why you don't just move elsewhere? It is their property and they can do with this as they please. It is not your job to decide whether they will make a profit or not.
If you cause them problems, are you fine with receiving a negative reference from them for when you do leave which you will probably have to anyway in 2029?
You also say that he could have evicted you but wants to meet to talk. So he is treating you like an actual human being and you wonder if you can force him to keep you as tenant? Will you be happy if he evicts you and then involves the council and court himself against you? Or are you under the impression that the council and the authorities are your mate down at the pub?
Just meet with him and see what he says and if he says that he wants you to leave ask him if you can count on him for reference to help find a new place. He will give a good reference just to help you leave.
It's strange how this guy has been undercharging you rent apparently and has saved you a lot of money and you are wondering how you can make his life a living hell.

You've not understood my reasoning for posting and then just resolved to kick someone whilst they're down.  You also missed the bit where the landlord was receiving rent whilst letting a substandard property and then saying he's under charging.  You clearly don't understand properties.  Anyway, maybe the Mod can delete your comment as you have nothing constructive to say but get a kick out of others' suffering. 

Uriziel

AlphaCentauri said:

Uriziel said:

Is there any reason why you don't just move elsewhere? It is their property and they can do with this as they please. It is not your job to decide whether they will make a profit or not.
If you cause them problems, are you fine with receiving a negative reference from them for when you do leave which you will probably have to anyway in 2029?
You also say that he could have evicted you but wants to meet to talk. So he is treating you like an actual human being and you wonder if you can force him to keep you as tenant? Will you be happy if he evicts you and then involves the council and court himself against you? Or are you under the impression that the council and the authorities are your mate down at the pub?
Just meet with him and see what he says and if he says that he wants you to leave ask him if you can count on him for reference to help find a new place. He will give a good reference just to help you leave.
It's strange how this guy has been undercharging you rent apparently and has saved you a lot of money and you are wondering how you can make his life a living hell.

You've not understood my reasoning for posting and then just resolved to kick someone whilst they're down.  You also missed the bit where the landlord was receiving rent whilst letting a substandard property and then saying he's under charging.  You clearly don't understand properties.  Anyway, maybe the Mod can delete your comment as you have nothing constructive to say but get a kick out of others' suffering. 

What kind of law are you referring to when you say that he is receiving rent for a "substandard" property? If anything about the property breaks the law then it must be fixed and undercharging rent does not make it legal. Are you saying that there is anything about the property that makes it illegal to live in and the landlord has not fixed it while you continue paying rent?
If not, the landlord can charge whatever he wants and he could've increased rent if he wanted to. The amount of rent a landlord charges has absolutely nothing to do with the property. Otherwise most properties in London would be illegal as they charge a fortune for the tiniest studios most of which have mould.
My response is constructive because you don't actually have a problem. The landlord has not been unfair towards you in the slightest. The reason they never actioned the eviction further is most likely because they do not want to cause you trouble which they very easily could have, especially a few months ago when the eviction laws changed. The reason why they blocked the boiler installation last year most likely was that they knew that the workmanship is terrible and whoever comes in to do the job will most likely mess with the property, not because they are terrible human beings.
The council can not stop a landlord from asking a tenant to leave. It is their property. They will, at most, tell you to stay there until you have found another property and they might put you on the list for council housing which is a very long list.
If you truly wanted advise you would have explained why you cannot leave and rent elsewhere. Instead you are focused on how you can "fight" your landlord. Stop being under the impression that you're a genius lawyer and that your life is an episode of Suits. The landlord could have caused you a lot of problems if he wanted to but he did not. Even if you are on a low income you can get your rent paid via UC and leave. If you want support I would start getting into that and not how you can battle the landlord.

AlphaCentauri

Uriziel said:

AlphaCentauri said:

Uriziel said:

Is there any reason why you don't just move elsewhere? It is their property and they can do with this as they please. It is not your job to decide whether they will make a profit or not.
If you cause them problems, are you fine with receiving a negative reference from them for when you do leave which you will probably have to anyway in 2029?
You also say that he could have evicted you but wants to meet to talk. So he is treating you like an actual human being and you wonder if you can force him to keep you as tenant? Will you be happy if he evicts you and then involves the council and court himself against you? Or are you under the impression that the council and the authorities are your mate down at the pub?
Just meet with him and see what he says and if he says that he wants you to leave ask him if you can count on him for reference to help find a new place. He will give a good reference just to help you leave.
It's strange how this guy has been undercharging you rent apparently and has saved you a lot of money and you are wondering how you can make his life a living hell.

You've not understood my reasoning for posting and then just resolved to kick someone whilst they're down.  You also missed the bit where the landlord was receiving rent whilst letting a substandard property and then saying he's under charging.  You clearly don't understand properties.  Anyway, maybe the Mod can delete your comment as you have nothing constructive to say but get a kick out of others' suffering. 

What kind of law are you referring to when you say that he is receiving rent for a "substandard" property? If anything about the property breaks the law then it must be fixed and undercharging rent does not make it legal. Are you saying that there is anything about the property that makes it illegal to live in and the landlord has not fixed it while you continue paying rent?
If not, the landlord can charge whatever he wants and he could've increased rent if he wanted to. The amount of rent a landlord charges has absolutely nothing to do with the property. Otherwise most properties in London would be illegal as they charge a fortune for the tiniest studios most of which have mould.
My response is constructive because you don't actually have a problem. The landlord has not been unfair towards you in the slightest. The reason they never actioned the eviction further is most likely because they do not want to cause you trouble which they very easily could have, especially a few months ago when the eviction laws changed. The reason why they blocked the boiler installation last year most likely was that they knew that the workmanship is terrible and whoever comes in to do the job will most likely mess with the property, not because they are terrible human beings.
The council can not stop a landlord from asking a tenant to leave. It is their property. They will, at most, tell you to stay there until you have found another property and they might put you on the list for council housing which is a very long list.
If you truly wanted advise you would have explained why you cannot leave and rent elsewhere. Instead you are focused on how you can "fight" your landlord. Stop being under the impression that you're a genius lawyer and that your life is an episode of Suits. The landlord could have caused you a lot of problems if he wanted to but he did not. Even if you are on a low income you can get your rent paid via UC and leave. If you want support I would start getting into that and not how you can battle the landlord.

I don't understand why you're posting when it offers no advice on my situation.  You're just telling me to 'put up or shut up'.  Have you not considered that I'm already aware of this argument as demonstrated by my original post?  Yet you've written at length to tell me what I already know.  All you're doing is telling me the landlord's side of the argument.

user1977

AlphaCentauri said:

Anyway, maybe there's some kind of legal challenge I can present?

Challenge to what? It doesn't sound like anything legal is happening at the moment.

Tabieth

AlphaCentauri said:

I live in a flat above a shop and there's also a neighbour - same landlord.  We've been in the properties for 20, 30 years respectively.  The 100 year leasehold ends in 3 years (2029).  The landlord has recently contacted me and the neighbour because they want to sell the remaining leasehold and want to meet to 'discuss options'.

It's unclear why they want to sell now.  I don't think the property would be worth much on the market with such a short leasehold.  In fact, I think its value would be less than the rent from the 2 flats over the same period although I don't know this.  

The landlord could have served us eviction notices and proceeded from there but has opted to contact us.

Needless to say, neither me nor the neighbour want to vacate.

Maybe the landlord wants to sell it on with assurances for us, the current tenants.  The problem here is that a new landlord would want to increase the rents to market rate which would be much higher than what we pay presently.

Supposing we remained in the properties until 2029, what happens to the title?  Presumably it defaults to the freeholder.

Earlier in the year, due to my low income status and the property's very low EPC (5 G) rating, I qualified for a government grant to get a boiler/insulation installed.  The landlord blocked this at first but I explained the situation to the council who then contacted the landlord and managed to get them to agree to the installation.

So, perhaps this is the landlord's revenge on me?  They've been trying to evict me for years but due to my resistance and their inaction, the situation has been stuck in a stalemate; they refused to carry out upgrades to the property and so the rent remained low.

Anyway, maybe there's some kind of legal challenge I can present?  Perhaps, the fact the council got involved might help.

You can delay things certainly, you don’t have to leave the property immediately. But you won’t be able to delay matters until 2029 so staying put until then is not an option for you. 

Ultimately, you don’t own the property and, while you have rights, you don’t have the same rights as an owner. I’d start planning for a move. 

Good luck with it all. 

Emmia

AlphaCentauri said:

Uriziel said:

Is there any reason why you don't just move elsewhere? It is their property and they can do with this as they please. It is not your job to decide whether they will make a profit or not.
If you cause them problems, are you fine with receiving a negative reference from them for when you do leave which you will probably have to anyway in 2029?
You also say that he could have evicted you but wants to meet to talk. So he is treating you like an actual human being and you wonder if you can force him to keep you as tenant? Will you be happy if he evicts you and then involves the council and court himself against you? Or are you under the impression that the council and the authorities are your mate down at the pub?
Just meet with him and see what he says and if he says that he wants you to leave ask him if you can count on him for reference to help find a new place. He will give a good reference just to help you leave.
It's strange how this guy has been undercharging you rent apparently and has saved you a lot of money and you are wondering how you can make his life a living hell.

You've not understood my reasoning for posting and then just resolved to kick someone whilst they're down.  You also missed the bit where the landlord was receiving rent whilst letting a substandard property and then saying he's under charging.  You clearly don't understand properties.  Anyway, maybe the Mod can delete your comment as you have nothing constructive to say but get a kick out of others' suffering. 

You carried on living there...

You also say that when your landlord sells (or the property reverts to the freeholder) your rent is likely to rise to the level of the local market. If you're still living there then, can you afford that higher rent?

If you're still there and a new landlord upgrades your property to meet the right standards, do you want to live there when that happens? It's likely to be very disruptive. The rent will also go up as a result.

I think you should be preparing to move fairly soon - meet the landlord and get a positive reference etc.

anselld

Uriziel said:

AlphaCentauri said:

Uriziel said:

Is there any reason why you don't just move elsewhere? It is their property and they can do with this as they please. It is not your job to decide whether they will make a profit or not.
If you cause them problems, are you fine with receiving a negative reference from them for when you do leave which you will probably have to anyway in 2029?
You also say that he could have evicted you but wants to meet to talk. So he is treating you like an actual human being and you wonder if you can force him to keep you as tenant? Will you be happy if he evicts you and then involves the council and court himself against you? Or are you under the impression that the council and the authorities are your mate down at the pub?
Just meet with him and see what he says and if he says that he wants you to leave ask him if you can count on him for reference to help find a new place. He will give a good reference just to help you leave.
It's strange how this guy has been undercharging you rent apparently and has saved you a lot of money and you are wondering how you can make his life a living hell.

You've not understood my reasoning for posting and then just resolved to kick someone whilst they're down.  You also missed the bit where the landlord was receiving rent whilst letting a substandard property and then saying he's under charging.  You clearly don't understand properties.  Anyway, maybe the Mod can delete your comment as you have nothing constructive to say but get a kick out of others' suffering. 

What kind of law are you referring to when you say that he is receiving rent for a "substandard" property?

EPC G for starters, and given the Landlord’s apparent lax attitude then probably others.

eddddy

Just as background info...

Assuming the lease on the flat only has 2 years left to run...

• The law says the flat owner can buy a 90 year lease extension
• But with only 2 years left on the lease, the cost of the lease extension would be very high

So my guess would be...

• Your landlord doesn't have the cash to pay for a lease extension
• So your landlord wants to sell the flat to somebody else, who will have the cash to pay for an extension

And so, your landlord could..

• Sell the property empty (i.e. you've moved out)
• Sell the property with you as a tenant (so you get a new landlord who might be better or worse than your current landlord)

• Properties generally sell for more if they are empty

Your landlord could try to evict you - but that might take a long time if you resist (maybe 6 to 12 months), or might be nearly impossible if the landlord has 'broken the rules'.

AlphaCentauri said:

The landlord has recently contacted me and the neighbour because they want to sell the remaining leasehold and want to meet to 'discuss options'.

One possibility is that the landlord wants to offer you a chunk of money to persuade you to voluntarily move out, so that they can sell the flat empty.

(Or if you want, you could suggest to the landlord that you might voluntarily move out, if the landlord pays you 'compensation for the inconvenience'.)

swingaloo

My advice would be to start looking for somewhere else asap and ask for a good reference from your current landlord. 

If he sells with you in situ then a new landlord is not going to agree less then the market rent when he takes the flats on. If it increases to market rent can you afford it? Do you still want to stay living there if you have to pay full market rent?

You say the landlord has been trying to evict you for ages which implies you are not on good terms anyway. I suspect that that it is a 2 way situation in that you have been happy to live in less than desirable accommodation in return for paying a lot less and the landlord has been taking less rent to shut you up as he didnt want to be bothered.

I would very much think that the landlord has not got all his ducks in a row to evict you and that is why it has not happened before. 

You will end up leaving so why delay, ask for a good reference (which you will need) and perhaps a contribution to moving costs to help him sell. If you dig  your heels in the alternative could be that you stay where you are and he puts the rent up substantially until he can sell.