Citroën Berlingo diesel hell! Vans direct

lookingforadvice123

Hi,

I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible. July 24 my small business purchased on lease hire 2x Citroën Berlingo diesel vehicles. This was after advice from the sales team at vans direct, they are financed through RCI. We were told due to the mileage the vans would do, they wouldn't need servicing for 2 years. 
Feb 25 both vans went into engine limp mode and the Citroën garage told us they required a service after less than 6 months due to the dpf filter. We contacted both Citroën and vans direct at this time and got ignored, Citroën were particularly rude and uninterested.
August 25 the exact same thing happened. We have spent nearly £1500 on these vans in servicing in less than a year.  
I now appreciate diesels are not suitable for the job we have for them but was unaware of this at the time. Where do we stand?
Our business isn't big enough to keep swallowing these costs and the garage has told us it will only end in complete engine failure.
Vans direct don't want to know
RCI don't want to know
The Motor Ombudsman won't help businesses.
We are frustrated angry and feel really let down. Any advice would be much appreciated 

paul_c123

Don't buy a Citroen van. Of course the Citroen garage are uninterested, they are only interested in doing cash cow servicing and don't know how to fix faults on older cars/vans.

Its a business-business transaction, many of the consumer rights won't apply (there are some rights though, as defined by SOGA). Do some Googling, look in detail at the legislation you're covered by, see if the selling dealer broke any of this and proceed from there.

Car_54

Are there really any vehicles  that don't need servicing for two years?

Mildly_Miffed

Car_54 said:

Are there really any vehicles  that don't need servicing for two years?

Most cars and vans over the last decade or two have oil & filter changes scheduled for 2yr/20k mile intervals or so.

I'm trying to figure out the OP's problem from the little information we've been given, but it sounds like DPF clogging through low mileage and lots of short journeys, so never getting properly up to working temperature? That's been common to all diesels from all manufacturers since the filters were introduced around 2010 to meet Euro5 emissions.

If that is the case, then changing the use pattern to include longer runs occasionally, or investing in diagnostic equipment to monitor the filter levels and force regens periodically, would be wise.

paul_c123

Rereading the OP, there's several anomolies. When you say, the Citroen garage said it needs a service - that sounds like !!!!!!. If it has a fault, it needs fixing, not a service. I dare say (from the limited info) they did a DPF regen which takes 20 mins and charged you through the nose for it. Also the garage which said it would result in complete engine failure - again doesn't sound right. It could result in DPF failure, but that's not an engine, that's the DPF.

Just buy a cheap scan tool and do a regen as/when needed. And if that doesn't work, do a DPF clean. 

Or find a better garage who could do those things, if you can't.

Herzlos

What does the handbook say the servicing schedule is? I don't see anything definitive online. 

What kind of mileage are you doing? If it's lots of short journeys it's not very good for a DPF vs longer journeys. 

what was the £1500 for? I can't imagine that'd cover much in the way of DPF repair.

Goudy

paul_c123 said:

Rereading the OP, there's several anomolies. When you say, the Citroen garage said it needs a service - that sounds like !!!!!!. If it has a fault, it needs fixing, not a service. I dare say (from the limited info) they did a DPF regen which takes 20 mins and charged you through the nose for it. Also the garage which said it would result in complete engine failure - again doesn't sound right. It could result in DPF failure, but that's not an engine, that's the DPF.

Just buy a cheap scan tool and do a regen as/when needed. And if that doesn't work, do a DPF clean. 

Or find a better garage who could do those things, if you can't.

It's not far off the truth.
Repeated failed DPF regens causes all sorts of havoc.

Obviously the filter fills with soot which isn't getting burnt to ash, this means the filter can no longer take any more and it will let the cars engine management system know that via pressure sensors both before and after the filter.

It's response is to keep trying to regenerate which adds another problem which is serious for the actual engine.
Oil dilution.

Fuel is injected post compression which is meant to make it's way to the filter to ignite and create enough heat to burn the soot which is made up of large particles, to ash which has much smaller particles.

This fuel finds it's way into the engine oil and dilutes it.
So not only does it lose some lubrication properties and cause engine damage, it increases the contents of what is in the sump.
Too much and the engine starts to try and find ways to throw it out and it's way out of the engine is into the air intake system.
The engine breather system is actually plumbed into the intake to burn off the engine oil fumes.

A diesel engine will run uncontrollably on this until it's all used up and the engine goes bang.
Don't forget a diesel has no spark to kill, it's very nature is it combusts fuel via pressure of compression, so turning the ignition off (key) will make no difference, it'll just rev it's head off and eventually go bang.

The dealership have been presented with these vehicles in a state of repeated DPF regen failures.
Of course they will deal with the soot in the filter by either forcing regeneration or having the filter removed and cleaned or even replacing it.

They will almost certainly replace the engine oil and filter to treat the oil dilution issue at the same time, hence they need an oil service.

There are some other factors that can add to the problem. If the engine/fuel/air system isn't correct that can cause the engine to run rich, produce more soot and fill the filter sooner. Even something as simple as a leaky turbo hose can over a short time cause excess soot.

By the sounds of it you seem to have the same short trip problem a lot of diesel owners suffer from.
The engine isn't running long enough/hot engine to complete a regen.

You could look into getting hold of the software that will allow you to check filter capacity and force regens, there are usually copies available cheaply with all the cables (check the Citroen and Peugeot forums).
 
I would also think about reducing the oil service interval. It's cheap enough to do every 12 months and should help with the oil dilution problem.
Just buy genuine filters and the right oil and get your local garage to change it.

prowla

Car_54 said:

Are there really any vehicles  that don't need servicing for two years?

Yes; in fact I tried to get my BMW serviced after 1 year and they refused to do it.

QrizB

Mildly_Miffed said:

If that is the case, then changing the use pattern to include longer runs occasionally

The old "Italian tune-up" - hoon it up the local dual carriageway for 30 minutes!

OP if your business makes lots of short journeys, did you consider buying electric vans?