Joint tenant or not?

Purple108

My husband died with no will and a lot of debt in his sole name. Form k restrictions have been put on the title of the house in his sole name. I called land registry and they looked and told me there was no form A entry therefore we were joint tenants and by rule of survivorship I inherit the house and it doesn’t form part of his insolvent estate. 

A company with a restriction on the house told me joint tenancy was severed with the interim charging order being put on the house. Land registry still says we are/were joint tenants. Can anyone help with which it is? 

I was a victim of domestic, financial abuse and coercive control and am under Mind who are very supportive. I want to sort the mess he left behind so I can move on. 

I need to sell the house as a family member is paying the mortgage and I’ll need to pay her back but with the fact that half the house may form part of his estate if we’re not joint tenants then I won’t have enough money for myself and the kids for a property in the area for school and my support network

marcia_

Purple108 said:

My husband died with no will and a lot of debt in his sole name. Form k restrictions have been put on the title of the house in his sole name. I called land registry and they looked and told me there was no form A entry therefore we were joint tenants and by rule of survivorship I inherit the house and it doesn’t form part of his insolvent estate. 

A company with a restriction on the house told me joint tenancy was severed with the interim charging order being put on the house. Land registry still says we are/were joint tenants. Can anyone help with which it is? 

I was a victim of domestic, financial abuse and coercive control and am under Mind who are very supportive. I want to sort the mess he left behind so I can move on. 

I need to sell the house as a family member is paying the mortgage and I’ll need to pay her back but with the fact that half the house may form part of his estate if we’re not joint tenants then I won’t have enough money for myself and the kids for a property in the area for school and my support network

 if you have spoken to the land registry I would be minded with accepting what they say as true. 

Flugelhorn

I would think you need to some legal advice - having read some info on websites it  looks like the presence of the charging order actually severs the tenancy. 

" Certain acts, such as bankruptcy, or the imposition of a charging order against that joint tenant can operate to sever the joint tenancy.  "

kimwp

Flugelhorn said:

I would think you need to some legal advice - having read some info on websites it  looks like the presence of the charging order actually severs the tenancy. 

" Certain acts, such as bankruptcy, or the imposition of a charging order against that joint tenant can operate to sever the joint tenancy.  "

I agree. Websites I looked at talked about an interim charging order, after which you have 14 days to object before it becomes a final charging order, and an objection to the final charging order without 28 day, I don't know if either is applicable. If you weren't served with the order, maybe that resets that timer?

What percentage of the house was his debt? You could maybe negotiate a smaller amount on the basis that they don't to then take you to court. But legal advice first, no point giving them anything if you don't have to.

WIAWSNB

Do you have Legal Protection included in your home insurance? No idea if this sort of issue would be covered, but they might have access to legal advisors. And if you can get some 'formal', correctly-worded guidance, the company may be more minded to arrive at a compromise, as Kimwp suggests.
Yes, proper legal advice seems to be essential here, although it can become costly. Any reputable local companies offer a free consultation to begin with?
Also try Citizens Advice. And Shelter.
Also - obvs not instead of - have a literal chat with ChatGPT. Although not to be taken as fact until confirmed, it is truly incredible. Simply tell it what you've outlined in your first paragraph, see what it says, and add the second. Talk it through. Ask for advice.

Keep_pedalling

Have a look at the massive Charging order thread - The myth thread over on the Debt free wannabe board. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1839539/charging-order-the-myth/p1

PS I think that is a better board to help you with this so I have asked the mods to move this there. 

silvercar

Can you tell us the order of events?

If the charging orders came after his death, then it may be that you were already sole owner of the property. In which case the charging orders relating to his debts shouldn’t have been registered. 

If the charging orders came while he was alive, then it may be that the joint ownership is severed, though this doesn’t stop you negotiating with the charge holders. After all, until you sell they can’t get their money.

mybestattempt

My understanding is:

• Only the joint owners can sever a joint tenancy

• When a charging order for a debt of one or other of the joint owners is made only a K-Restriction can be placed

• A K-Restriction is removed when the property is sold or transferred, the related debt is does not have to be paid

• Not all conveyancing solicitors are aware of this and may pay the K-Restriction debt from the proceeds of the sale of a property

When she sells the property she should ensure her conveyancing solicitor is aware of this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/charging-orders/practice-guide-76-charging-orders

Purple108

silvercar said:

Can you tell us the order of events?

If the charging orders came after his death, then it may be that you were already sole owner of the property. In which case the charging orders relating to his debts shouldn’t have been registered. 

If the charging orders came while he was alive, then it may be that the joint ownership is severed, though this doesn’t stop you negotiating with the charge holders. After all, until you sell they can’t get their money.

The interim charging orders were put on when he was alive. I called BMW Finances’ solicitors at the time I was given the notice and they told me even if I object my objection would go nowhere and there’s nothing I can go. He kept telling me the usual lies of he will pay it off. None of the form k restrictions are yet registered as final charging order. They are all interim ones

Purple108

mybestattempt said:

My understanding is:

• Only the joint owners can sever a joint tenancy

• When a charging order for a debt of one or other of the joint owners is made only a K-Restriction can be placed

• A K-Restriction is removed when the property is sold or transferred, the related debt is does not have to be paid

• Not all conveyancing solicitors are aware of this and may pay the K-Restriction debt from the proceeds of the sale of a property

When she sells the property she should ensure her conveyancing solicitor is aware of this:

If this is the case then for me this is ideal. The interim charging orders total over £140,000. I have no idea what evidence he showed BMW finance that they sold him and gave him finance for 3 supercars! His total debts total around £700,000 and my worry about joint tenancy is that if it really is severed it means half of the house goes into his estate (which right now is non existent) and more importantly it means I will not be able to afford a property in the area to house myself and child for his school. 

Can I ask what your background is and how sure you are what you say is correct. 

I’m so grateful to everyone for helping

mybestattempt

Purple108 said:

mybestattempt said:

My understanding is:

• Only the joint owners can sever a joint tenancy

• When a charging order for a debt of one or other of the joint owners is made only a K-Restriction can be placed

• A K-Restriction is removed when the property is sold or transferred, the related debt is does not have to be paid

• Not all conveyancing solicitors are aware of this and may pay the K-Restriction debt from the proceeds of the sale of a property

When she sells the property she should ensure her conveyancing solicitor is aware of this:

If this is the case then for me this is ideal. The interim charging orders total over £140,000. I have no idea what evidence he showed BMW finance that they sold him and gave him finance for 3 supercars! His total debts total around £700,000 and my worry about joint tenancy is that if it really is severed it means half of the house goes into his estate (which right now is non existent) and more importantly it means I will not be able to afford a property in the area to house myself and child for his school. 

Can I ask what your background is and how sure you are what you say is correct. 

I’m so grateful to everyone for helping

As I said it is only my understanding. This comes from reading the practice note I gave the link to and other reading about the differences between joint tenancy and tenants in common, I've no professional, practical or personal experience of the issues.

I would, however, given the large amounts involved urge you to seek professional legal advice now as you intend to sell the property.