Advice Needed – Speeding Ticket & Court Hearing next week

TooManyPoints

Indeed. It’s fairly straightforward. The OP was detected speeding. He did not receive the “Notice of Intended Prosecution” and the accompanying “Request for Driver’s Details” because he had not updated his V5C. 

Since he did not receive the request he did not respond to it and so was prosecuted for that offence, as well as for speeding.

The usual strategy for dealing with that is to plead not guilty to both and, at court, offer to plead guilty to speeding on the condition that the FtP charge (to which he does not have a realistic defence) is dropped. 

Unfortunately the OP has jeopardised that somewhat as he pleaded guilty to speeding (which could not have been proved because the police have no evidence he was driving). So instead of being able to make a straightforward offer, he will have to be a bit more persuasive.

born_again

While slightly off the topic.
Saying you failed to update the V5 as required. Why does this not lead to the fine for failure to update?

TooManyPoints

Because it's up to the DVLA and they rarely prosecute the offence.

Goudy

As far as the failure to provide details, you need to show is wasn't reasonably practical to do so in the given time.

You'll need some sort of evidence of your inability to respond, perhaps you were ill or on an extended holiday.

The notice may have been misdelivered or your reply was lost.
Again you are going to need some evidence of perhaps a postal strike or disruption or proof of postage of your reply.

You might argue that because of your profession (hard working, down trodden NHS resident doctor) you are required to move where the work takes you and this means constantly updating the address on your car's V5C when you move.

Due to this there is a delay in the V5C being updated by DVLA. It's not your delay, it's theirs so it was impossible to respond in time as you didn't get the notice. 

There should be a issue date of your V5C Get vehicle information from DVLA - GOV.UK . If you've changed it again you might need to ask DVLA for the others.

If that date is just after (and I mean very close) to the date of the NIP, you just might have a viable argument.

Obviously it's another offence to not update your V5C so if the dates look too wide apart, don't try this unless there are other circumstances.

Perhaps moving house, moving to a new job and your wife being ill and having an operation might be considered as being reasonably impractical, the updating of your V5C couldn't possibly be at the forefront of the mind of the most organised person in those circumstances. 
You did after all update your V5C when you could as that's how to became aware and got the SJPN.

If you can supply some evidence of it being reasonably impractical the court may act with a little discretion as you have acted promptly after becoming aware of the NIP and pleaded guilty to that speeding charge and prosecutor might not push for the other offence to be considered.

TooManyPoints

If you can supply some evidence of it being reasonably impractical the court may act with a little discretion 

I don't think it's mentioned in this thread but elsewhere he has said that he moved in October '24 and the offence was in December '24 (by which time he had still not updated his V5C).

The police sent his NIP and request for driver's details to his last known address and there is no suggestion it did not arrive there.

The court cannot act "with a little discretion". He has no realistic chance of defending the FtP charge and if it remains he will almost certainly be convicted. The discretion must come from he prosecutor. 

Goudy

TooManyPoints said:

If you can supply some evidence of it being reasonably impractical the court may act with a little discretion 

I don't think it's mentioned in this thread but elsewhere he has said that he moved in October '24 and the offence was in December '24 (by which time he had still not updated his V5C).

The police sent his NIP and request for driver's details to his last known address and there is no suggestion it did not arrive there.

The court cannot act "with a little discretion". He has no realistic chance of defending the FtP charge and if it remains he will almost certainly be convicted. The discretion must come from he prosecutor. 

Magistrates and judges can and do show discretion all the time.

There is a legal term for not showing it, it's called "fettering of discretion".

Public law prevents a magistrate from applying a policy so rigid that it prevents them considering the specific details of each case. If they do it can lead to cases being quashed.

There is something called Tailoring to the Case which means a magistrate must consider the unique facts of each case to ensure any punishment is just and fair.

If found guilty of failure to provide driver details the penalty includes up to 6 points and a fine of up to £1000.
(a magistrate can and will show discretion and decide what suits)

It's what court is all about and why some choose to go rather than plead guilty by post.
Even if they are found guilty, sentencing guidelines aren't set in stone. They allow for a range of possible sentences and the magistrate/s can tailor a punishment that suits those unique facts.

Of course any sentence may be the same as pleading guilty by post. The magistrate may decide there is nothing unique, that's the chance you take at court. 

Car_54

Goudy said:

TooManyPoints said:

If you can supply some evidence of it being reasonably impractical the court may act with a little discretion 

I don't think it's mentioned in this thread but elsewhere he has said that he moved in October '24 and the offence was in December '24 (by which time he had still not updated his V5C).

The police sent his NIP and request for driver's details to his last known address and there is no suggestion it did not arrive there.

The court cannot act "with a little discretion". He has no realistic chance of defending the FtP charge and if it remains he will almost certainly be convicted. The discretion must come from he prosecutor. 

If found guilty of failure to provide driver details the penalty includes up to 6 points and a fine of up to £1000.
(a magistrate can and will show discretion and decide what suits)

Six points is not a maximum. It is obligatory, unless the court uses its only discretion, which is to impose a ban instead. Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 Schedule 2.

TooManyPoints

“Public law prevents a magistrate from applying a policy so rigid that it prevents them considering the specific details of each case. If they do it can lead to cases being quashed.”

Which law is that then?

That aside, they can consider the specific details of this case. They are, in summary, that he failed to inform the DVLA of his change of address and that was the cause of him not receiving the request for driver’s details. It certainly was not reasonably practical for him to respond to that request but the cause of that was his alone.

“If found guilty of failure to provide driver details the penalty includes up to 6 points”

No it doesn’t . As above, it’s six points or a disqualification. The defendant may ask the court to consider that there are “Special Reasons” not to endorse his licence and impose points or disqualify. If he did that request would fail.

“They allow for a range of possible sentences and the magistrate/s can tailor a punishment that suits those unique facts.”

Within the parameters laid down in statute. 

“Of course any sentence may be the same as pleading guilty by post. The magistrate may decide there is nothing unique, that's the chance you take at court.”

He’s not pleading guilty by post. He has pleaded not guilty and that means he is required to appear in person. If that charge remains he will face a trial and will, bar a major procedural error, be convicted. If you are suggesting he should continue down that route you are providing bad advice.

You are also providing misleading information by quoting terms which have no substance (“Public Law” and “Tailoring to the Case”). It would be interesting to learn where you unearthed those terms

Neo14

TooManyPoints said:

,,,typically they can’t charge both…

 Yes they can. They are two separate offences committed at least a month apart. 

Not only can they both be charged, but they can both result in a conviction (but only if the defendant pleads guilty to speeding as there would be is no evidence he was driving). 

That said, most prosecutors take a pragmatic approach and treat the two effectively as alternatives. In fact, some courts have taken to informing the defendant of this by saying “if you plead guilty to one the other will be dropped” (or similar). 

The OP’s position is quite straightforward: he has an SJPN listing both offences. He has to tread more carefully than most because of his guilty plea to speeding, but I believe an approach to the prosecutor will see he desired result. 

Neo14 – if you are unable to see the prosecutor before being called into court, you should be asked to confirm your pleas when you are called in. At this stage you can explain to the court what has happened (failed to update V5C) and ask if it would be necessary to formally change your guilty plea to speeding to not guilty so as to make your offer. 

It is common practice for both charges to be laid in your circumstances and all court users are familiar with the process of pleading guilty to speeding on the condition that the FtP is dropped. It is rarely, if ever, declined (I only know of one instance). Your only complication is your unconditional guilty plea to speeding but I believe with a bit of careful negotiation (and a sensible prosecutor) you should be able to get round that.

"Neo14 – if you are unable to see the prosecutor before being called into court, you should be asked to confirm your pleas when you are called in. At this stage you can explain to the court what has happened (failed to update V5C) and ask if it would be necessary to formally change your guilty plea to speeding to not guilty so as to make your offer. " 

Is it actually possible to change a guilty plea to not guilty in these circumstances? I’m assuming that if I manage to speak to the prosecutor beforehand, I should have a similar conversation with them?

I’m planning to arrive at court a couple of hours early so I have the some chance of finding and speaking with the prosecutor. I’d appreciate any thoughts or experiences from others who’ve been through this.

TooManyPoints

Is it actually possible to change a guilty plea to not guilty in these circumstances?

Yes.

I’m assuming that if I manage to speak to the prosecutor beforehand, I should have a similar conversation with them?

The prosecutor should le you know what will be required. With any luck he will simply offer to withdraw he FtP charge.