Seller breaks £2k item then wants refund. Private sale.

ChrisFN66

I recently sold a workout machine for £2000 in a private sale on Ebay. It was in perfect cosmetic and working order. The item was too heavy to post so I hired a van at my own expense, drove to the buyer's house, set it up for him and left. He was happy with the purchase and all was fine. 

But now, over 3 weeks later, the buyer is claiming the machine has stopped working and wants a full refund. 

Seriously??! Anything could've happened in the time between now and when I dropped it off. He’s even admitted not only to me in messages but also to Ebay that it was all good to start with but doesn’t work anymore.

Unbelievably, Ebay have decided he’s entitled to a full refund. !!!!!!?! How do I know his kids didn’t damage it or if there was a drunken party with over-zealous friends trying it out? 

I’m at the point of considering legal action as for me it’s more about the principal than the money. 

It just doesn’t seem right that as a private seller I appear to have no protection against someone who is clearly trying it on. Ebay is also expecting me to pay for the return postage! So I’m so supposed to refund £2000 and take back a machine that’s broken and just suck it up?

What do others think? Am I going mad??

ChrisFN66

Sorry, that was supposed read...

BUYER breaks £2k item then wants refund.

jim1999

You're right, of course, but eBay aren't logical - they just side with the buyer.

You are going to have a massive battle on your hands here.

I would at the very least try to telephone eBay and make your case.  Refusing to take the return is probably a bad move, but outlining that it patently worked when you delivered it, that the buyer was happily using it for a period, and only now wants a refund might get you some sympathy.  It can be a bit of a faff trying to get someone from eBay on the phone but in my experience it's been much more "human" than the webforms, emails etc.

ChrisFN66

Hi Jim. I've spoken to someone from Ebay on the phone and whilst she was sympathetic, she also pretty much implied I didn't have a leg to stand on. I just don't get how it's ok for someone to break something after they've had it for a while, expect me to take it back broken, provide a full refund AND pay the postage! Utterly bizarre!! 

RedImp_2

Just to put the other side, for sake of argument if I’d spent £2k on something and it stopped working within 3 weeks I wouldn’t be happy either.
Although I think as a private buyer then caveat emptor I guess.

jim1999

ChrisFN66 said:

Hi Jim. I've spoken to someone from Ebay on the phone and whilst she was sympathetic, she also pretty much implied I didn't have a leg to stand on. I just don't get how it's ok for someone to break something after they've had it for a while, expect me to take it back broken, provide a full refund AND pay the postage! Utterly bizarre!! 

That sucks.  This is exactly why I don't use eBay as a seller any more though - it has nothing to do with law, logic etc.  As soon as you sell something on eBay you are totally subject to whatever arbitrary rules they make up.

You're in a bit of a tricky situation in that if you arrange to ship it back, either you're paying an absolute fortune to a courier or you're going back yourself to collect it again.

If you don't arrange to ship it back, the buyer will keep both the item and the money.

The buyer may well have broken it, or might just be trying it on because they know eBay will side with them and you're unlikely to try to take it back again.

Court action is always an option, but if you sue eBay it will probably be a nightmare and if you sue the buyer you may get nothing out of them at the end even if you win.

Back to the original point - this is why I don't sell things on eBay.

Spoonie_Turtle

Do you have any messages or feedback to show that it was working at the start?

I'd be inclined to get back onto eBay again anyway until you get a more satisfactory response, but especially if you have anything in writing that shows or even implies the buyer was happy with it.

ChrisFN66

Yes, the buyer has admitted to me AND Ebay in writing that it was working to start with but now isn't. That's why I can't understand why Ebay is siding with the buyer as a fault that arises 3 weeks later surely can't be classed as “significantly not as described".

MyRealNameToo

ChrisFN66 said:

Yes, the buyer has admitted to me AND Ebay in writing that it was working to start with but now isn't. That's why I can't understand why Ebay is siding with the buyer as a fault that arises 3 weeks later surely can't be classed as “significantly not as described".

Under the consumer rights they can reject goods in the first month and in the first 6 months its up to the seller to prove it wasnt defective rather than the consumer to prove it is. 

If you are a private seller then the consumer rights dont apply but eBay tends to take a fairly broad brushstroke approach and doesnt materially differentiate between people claiming to be businesses and those claiming to be private sales. 

Whilst it shouldn't apply, assuming you are just selling your old stuff, these are the joys of the overly protective nanny state which is very open to abuse but most on here champion that protections should go further not less. 

MattMattMattUK

Ebay do just not care, they have not for years. Your only real choice will to take it back then get a CCJ against the buyer for the cost of having the item repaired. 

MattMattMattUK

MyRealNameToo said:

ChrisFN66 said:

Yes, the buyer has admitted to me AND Ebay in writing that it was working to start with but now isn't. That's why I can't understand why Ebay is siding with the buyer as a fault that arises 3 weeks later surely can't be classed as “significantly not as described".

Under the consumer rights they can reject goods in the first month and in the first 6 months its up to the seller to prove it wasnt defective rather than the consumer to prove it is. 

If you are a private seller then the consumer rights dont apply but eBay tends to take a fairly broad brushstroke approach and doesnt materially differentiate between people claiming to be businesses and those claiming to be private sales. 

Whilst it shouldn't apply, assuming you are just selling your old stuff, these are the joys of the overly protective nanny state which is very open to abuse but most on here champion that protections should go further not less. 

Ebay's policies are nothing to do with the "nanny state", their policies are anti-seller and have been for many years.