Simple plans for small extensiom

thingswerentthisbadinmyday

Morning all
Would be grateful for any help/pointers as we’ve never done this sort of thing before.
We are thinking about a very small, single storey extension to the rear of the house. At the moment, there is a conservatory which has seen better days. At some point, it will need to come down so we thought we’d pre-empt that.
Given the likely size and height of the extension, we thought it would come under ‘permitted development’ but the council have told us we need to submit something called a ‘pre-application’.
Anyway, plans are now required.
We’re not sure who/what type of firm to approach. We’ve been told that an Architect will often (normally?) base the fee on a percentage of the extension cost, but we’ve also seen references to Architectural Teechnologists?
We’re not penny pinching but given the plans need to be as simple as possible; our builder has said we need to get planning drawings rather than detailed building regulations drawings (which simply aren’t necessary for something so straight forward), we’re wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to find someone who will draw up the plans for a fixed cost.
We really don’t know where to start or who we should be talking to.
Any views/opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

stuart45

Drawings for planning are normally simple for small extensions. I've done them myself for some. You need more detailed ones for Building Control, unless you take the Building Notice route. 

Section62

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

Morning all
Would be grateful for any help/pointers as we’ve never done this sort of thing before.
We are thinking about a very small, single storey extension to the rear of the house. At the moment, there is a conservatory which has seen better days. At some point, it will need to come down so we thought we’d pre-empt that.
Given the likely size and height of the extension, we thought it would come under ‘permitted development’ but the council have told us we need to submit something called a ‘pre-application’.
Anyway, plans are now required.
We’re not sure who/what type of firm to approach. We’ve been told that an Architect will often (normally?) base the fee on a percentage of the extension cost, but we’ve also seen references to Architectural Teechnologists?
We’re not penny pinching but given the plans need to be as simple as possible; our builder has said we need to get planning drawings rather than detailed building regulations drawings (which simply aren’t necessary for something so straight forward), we’re wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to find someone who will draw up the plans for a fixed cost.
We really don’t know where to start or who we should be talking to.
Any views/opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

There may be no legal need for detailed plans, but what were you going to use to make sure the builder builds what you want, and to have something you can use 'legally' to prove your case if the builder stuffs up?

Reasonably detailed plans should form part of your contract with the builder - so both sides know what the expected result is going to be.  If you feel employing someone to draw up plans is expensive and can be avoided, wait until you see what solicitors charge for taking builders to court.

For planning purposes you don't really need much more than a dimensioned sketch plan.  If you use an architect or architectual technologist then they will have some professional liability for what they design, so will want to make a proper job of it and charge accordingly.  Someone offering 'CAD' services may be willing to convert your own sketch into something more upmarket, but won't usually be qualified (or insured) to provide advice or checking of your design.

There are some really good builders who can be relied on to do everything end-to-end... but there are a lot who'll tell you not to worry about stuff ("it isn't necessary"/"I'll sort it") and leave you to sort out the mess.

WIAWSNB

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

Morning all
Would be grateful for any help/pointers as we’ve never done this sort of thing before.
We are thinking about a very small, single storey extension to the rear of the house. At the moment, there is a conservatory which has seen better days. At some point, it will need to come down so we thought we’d pre-empt that.
Given the likely size and height of the extension, we thought it would come under ‘permitted development’ but the council have told us we need to submit something called a ‘pre-application’.
Anyway, plans are now required.
We’re not sure who/what type of firm to approach. We’ve been told that an Architect will often (normally?) base the fee on a percentage of the extension cost, but we’ve also seen references to Architectural Teechnologists?
We’re not penny pinching but given the plans need to be as simple as possible; our builder has said we need to get planning drawings rather than detailed building regulations drawings (which simply aren’t necessary for something so straight forward), we’re wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to find someone who will draw up the plans for a fixed cost.
We really don’t know where to start or who we should be talking to.
Any views/opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

What design will this extension be? And what will it be used for? Will it be any larger than the existing conservatory? 

Just putting this out there - but I don't know if it's a realistic option; provided you keep the existing exterior doors to your conservatory, then your new extension shouldn't require BC. I'm guessing it also won't require PP (unless you change its use into, say, a kitchen.)

But it can still be built - easily - to modern insulation standards, and be a perfectly normal part of your house in every other respect. For most of the year, you could leave these connecting 'doors' open, and even in winter it shouldn't have a negative effect as the extension will likely be better insulated than the rest of your house... (how old is the main house?) And if the hinges fail, then, blimey.

By the above, I'm suggesting a fully insulated timber frame, which can be clad in whatever finish you want, including render. 

I repeat - I don't know if it's realistic. 

thingswerentthisbadinmyday

Section62 said:

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

Morning all
Would be grateful for any help/pointers as we’ve never done this sort of thing before.
We are thinking about a very small, single storey extension to the rear of the house. At the moment, there is a conservatory which has seen better days. At some point, it will need to come down so we thought we’d pre-empt that.
Given the likely size and height of the extension, we thought it would come under ‘permitted development’ but the council have told us we need to submit something called a ‘pre-application’.
Anyway, plans are now required.
We’re not sure who/what type of firm to approach. We’ve been told that an Architect will often (normally?) base the fee on a percentage of the extension cost, but we’ve also seen references to Architectural Teechnologists?
We’re not penny pinching but given the plans need to be as simple as possible; our builder has said we need to get planning drawings rather than detailed building regulations drawings (which simply aren’t necessary for something so straight forward), we’re wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to find someone who will draw up the plans for a fixed cost.
We really don’t know where to start or who we should be talking to.
Any views/opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

There may be no legal need for detailed plans, but what were you going to use to make sure the builder builds what you want, and to have something you can use 'legally' to prove your case if the builder stuffs up?

Reasonably detailed plans should form part of your contract with the builder - so both sides know what the expected result is going to be.  If you feel employing someone to draw up plans is expensive and can be avoided, wait until you see what solicitors charge for taking builders to court.

For planning purposes you don't really need much more than a dimensioned sketch plan.  If you use an architect or architectual technologist then they will have some professional liability for what they design, so will want to make a proper job of it and charge accordingly.  Someone offering 'CAD' services may be willing to convert your own sketch into something more upmarket, but won't usually be qualified (or insured) to provide advice or checking of your design.

There are some really good builders who can be relied on to do everything end-to-end... but there are a lot who'll tell you not to worry about stuff ("it isn't necessary"/"I'll sort it") and leave you to sort out the mess.

Thanks.
We started out on the assumption that the builder would be doing everything ‘end to end’, but as we’ve continued discussions, a couple of things have arisen (requirement for a pre-application and possible issues with the foul water drain) which has prompted the builder to advise us to have simple plans drawn up.
Still interested in any advice as to whether a professional will draw up plans on a fixed fee basis.
Thanks abain.

thingswerentthisbadinmyday

WIAWSNB said:

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

Morning all
Would be grateful for any help/pointers as we’ve never done this sort of thing before.
We are thinking about a very small, single storey extension to the rear of the house. At the moment, there is a conservatory which has seen better days. At some point, it will need to come down so we thought we’d pre-empt that.
Given the likely size and height of the extension, we thought it would come under ‘permitted development’ but the council have told us we need to submit something called a ‘pre-application’.
Anyway, plans are now required.
We’re not sure who/what type of firm to approach. We’ve been told that an Architect will often (normally?) base the fee on a percentage of the extension cost, but we’ve also seen references to Architectural Teechnologists?
We’re not penny pinching but given the plans need to be as simple as possible; our builder has said we need to get planning drawings rather than detailed building regulations drawings (which simply aren’t necessary for something so straight forward), we’re wondering if it wouldn’t be possible to find someone who will draw up the plans for a fixed cost.
We really don’t know where to start or who we should be talking to.
Any views/opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

What design will this extension be? And what will it be used for? Will it be any larger than the existing conservatory? 

Just putting this out there - but I don't know if it's a realistic option; provided you keep the existing exterior doors to your conservatory, then your new extension shouldn't require BC. I'm guessing it also won't require PP (unless you change its use into, say, a kitchen.)

But it can still be built - easily - to modern insulation standards, and be a perfectly normal part of your house in every other respect. For most of the year, you could leave these connecting 'doors' open, and even in winter it shouldn't have a negative effect as the extension will likely be better insulated than the rest of your house... (how old is the main house?) And if the hinges fail, then, blimey.

By the above, I'm suggesting a fully insulated timber frame, which can be clad in whatever finish you want, including render. 

I repeat - I don't know if it's realistic. 

Thanks very much for the suggestions.
The conservatory is old and leaks in heavy rain. Our best option is to either demolish it and not replace, or have a small extension. 
The existing footprint doesn’t work - sadly - as it’s an odd shape.

stuart45

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

Still interested in any advice as to whether a professional will draw up plans on a fixed fee basis.
Thanks abain.

Your best bet is probably an Architectural Technician, rather than an architect. They do similar jobs, but an architect tends to be more artistic, whereas the technician is more likely to give you a straightforward drawing. Architects often seem to use their vision to try and create something better, but a lot more expensive. Technicians are more likely to give you what you asked for, but will make sure it's technically correct for Building Control. 

thingswerentthisbadinmyday

stuart45 said:

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

Still interested in any advice as to whether a professional will draw up plans on a fixed fee basis.
Thanks abain.

Your best bet is probably an Architectural Technician, rather than an architect. They do similar jobs, but an architect tends to be more artistic, whereas the technician is more likely to give you a straightforward drawing. Architects often seem to use their vision to try and create something better, but a lot more expensive. Technicians are more likely to give you what you asked for, but will make sure it's technically correct for Building Control. 

I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
We just want something as simple as possible. No artistic flair is needed, just something that will pass whatever application process is needed and be a reference point for both us and the builder.

stuart45

For a pre planning app, you only need a very basic drawing. It's only really for them to advise you on whether a formal app is required, and if it is any advice on what may or may not be acceptable. Even for a formal planning app the drawings are relatively basic. It's the ones for Building Control that need to contain the correct technical details.
Is the builder going to do the works through a Building Notice for the regs?

thingswerentthisbadinmyday

stuart45 said:

…..
Is the builder going to do the works through a Building Notice for the regs?

Sorry, but am going to show my inexperience here, by saying that I presume this is what the builder intends.
Quite honestly, we’re going to be relying on the builder to tell us what is needed/the options.
We started out thinking that it would be “permitted development” but I decided anyway to speak to the council myself who told me about the pre-application.
We live in an “AONB” so am thinking this may impact upon what a council can and cannot allow.
Thanks

Section62

thingswerentthisbadinmyday said:

stuart45 said:

…..
Is the builder going to do the works through a Building Notice for the regs?

Sorry, but am going to show my inexperience here, by saying that I presume this is what the builder intends.
Quite honestly, we’re going to be relying on the builder to tell us what is needed/the options.
We started out thinking that it would be “permitted development” but I decided anyway to speak to the council myself who told me about the pre-application.
We live in an “AONB” so am thinking this may impact upon what a council can and cannot allow.
Thanks

You shouldn't rely on a builder to tell you what needs doing - they may give you good advice, but you won't know if what they are telling you is wrong, and you have zero comeback if they misadvise you.

The AONB might complicate things, particularly if there is an 'Article 4 direction' in place.  This may be why the council is asking for a pre-app.

Don't be tempted to bend the rules to avoid the need for building control signoff.  A conservatory is a conservatory, an extension is an extension.  Pretending your extension is a conservatory to avoid the BC process isn't very clever.  When you come to sell you'll likely be asked for evidence of planning/BC approvals for the extension - solicitors and mortgage companies won't be interested in claims your extension is really a conservatory and therefore didn't need it.... it will probably cost you to get indemnities, and you potentially risk the sale falling through.

An Architectural Technician will be able to do a basic plan you need for planning, and would be able to do drawings for BC approval.  They should also be able to give you a second opinion whether what the builder tells you is correct.