Buying a freehold house but part of garden (15ft strip) is leased to council– anyone had experience?

newmember676

Section62 said:

newmember676 said:

Hi all, I’m a first-time buyer and feeling quite nervous. I’m buying a freehold house, but I’ve discovered that a 15-foot strip at the very end of the back garden has actually been leased out to the council (so the council is the tenant).

...

Are you sure the land is leased to the council, not from the council?

If it is 'to' then I'd expect it might have something to do with drainage - e.g. there's a sewer under the land.  Or else the council wanted access to the adjacent land and for some reason a normal wayleave or RoW wasn't considered adequate.

Yes, this is what the solicitor said that Council is the Tenant.

and there is no drainage at the back. I have checked three times by going there, and there are only trees. At the end of the back garden, there is 15 feet of land which has been leased to the council. After that, there is also another back garden of a different house. All the back gardens are connected at the back.

newmember676

Neil49 said:

What does the current owner say about the situation. He can't complain about being asked as the subject will have to be clarified at some stage in your buying process and the sooner it is explained the better. 

I haven’t spoken with the current owner, but I think I can. If I can, then how should it be done? What do you think? Through the estate agent?

newmember676

silvercar said:

Easiest would be for the current seller to gift the land to the council, leaving behind a freehold property. Or at least split the title into 2, retaining the leasehold section themselves. That way they are selling a freehold property with garden,.

You made a good point, but here a question arises, if this land is gifted to the council, will the council even be able to reach that land? If they can, then how? Because I have viewed the property three times, and the only way to reach that strip is either through this property’s garden or through the back garden of the other house. Isn’t this a valid question? That even if the 15-foot strip is gifted, will the council accept it and then leave the involvement it has with the property?

user1977

newmember676 said:

poseidon1 said:

newmember676 said:

gwynlas said:

Is there a fence showing this division?

As above what is this strip used for?

Thank you for your comment. No There is no fence showing the division. for you 2nd question, there are only two very large trees

Check whether the trees are the subject of tree preservation orders (TPOs) and the lease is therefore the council's unusual  (but perhaps more effective) way to ensure the orders are not breached.

How can we check if the trees have a TPO (Tree Preservation Order) on them?

Looking at the council's website would be a good start. Which council is it?

Section62

newmember676 said:

Section62 said:

newmember676 said:

Hi all, I’m a first-time buyer and feeling quite nervous. I’m buying a freehold house, but I’ve discovered that a 15-foot strip at the very end of the back garden has actually been leased out to the council (so the council is the tenant).

...

Are you sure the land is leased to the council, not from the council?

If it is 'to' then I'd expect it might have something to do with drainage - e.g. there's a sewer under the land.  Or else the council wanted access to the adjacent land and for some reason a normal wayleave or RoW wasn't considered adequate.

Yes, this is what the solicitor said that Council is the Tenant.

and there is no drainage at the back. I have checked three times by going there, and there are only trees. At the end of the back garden, there is 15 feet of land which has been leased to the council. After that, there is also another back garden of a different house. All the back gardens are connected at the back.

The kind of drainage I'm thinking of is likely to be a few metres underground, so nothing to see unless there just happens to be a manhole in that location.

Have you had the results of the sewer search yet?

I'm doubtful about the TPO idea - carrying out unauthorised work on a TPO'd tree is an offence for which large fines can be imposed.  Someone willing to commit an offence and risk the fine is probably unlikely to be deterred by the fact that part of their garden is leased to the council.  Leasing the land seems to be a complicated (and expensive) way to attempt to protect the trees.

eddddy

newmember676 said:

I haven’t spoken with the current owner, but I think I can. If I can, then how should it be done? What do you think? Through the estate agent?

Yes - as a first step, ask the estate agent to ask the seller why that strip of land is leased to the council. Or speak to the seller directly.

The answer might 'point you in the right direction', so you can investigate further.

But you cannot rely on the answer. You would need to pass the info on to your solicitor, so that they can check whether it's accurate.

But overall, it's likely to speed things up if you make the initial enquiries this way - rather than through solicitors.

Arctos

If the seller is keen to go through with the sale they would be wise to do all in their power to (a) answer your questions which may mean they have to talk to the leaseholder and show you written documentation (b) and let you and your solicitor see the leasehold documents.
Quite honestly the leased portion is hardly going to be an asset if there's some 50ish years to run.
There are a few potentially worrying elements for the eventual buyer [be that you or someone else]. One is the risk of tree damage to the freehold house and any neighbouring property. Presumably the leaseholder would be liable to maintain the trees, for which they need access. If the council are playing difficult over the present reasonable "due diligence" that you are doing, are they going to be good neighbours should the roots of those trees damage the foundations of the house, for example? Another worry is the as-yet-undeclared purpose of acquiring the lease. If the leaseholder has not developed the strip over several decades there must be some reason. Without a satisfactory answer it may be wise to be very wary. It seems a small parcel of land with access issues for surrounding landowners. Maybe, with respect to another member who suggested that you only buy the freehold plot and let the seller decide what to do with the leased plot, this is not necessarily in your interest. When buying a house it is essential to establish what any history with neighbours has been. Few people would want a property where neighbours have a bad record. The neighbour is a council, but it is unwise to assume that they are going to be as good as a family or private individuals who may be easier to interact with face to face over the boundary wall.
A common principle is to consider any land/property purchase with the perspective of eventually selling. It's a poor idea to buy something that will for any reason be difficult to sell. If there are doubts, potential purchasers may have them too.
In the meantime you may want to look at alternatives just in case...

tooldle

Access point for a culvert perhaps? We have a culvert under our garden (2m below surface). The stream bed (as was) is owned by the council. The route cuts across our garden so a very narrow strip is owned by the council (around 1m wide x 20m in length). The whole garden is enclosed and we have full access to the entirety. Something similar in your case maybe?

newmember676

tooldle said:

Access point for a culvert perhaps? We have a culvert under our garden (2m below surface). The stream bed (as was) is owned by the council. The route cuts across our garden so a very narrow strip is owned by the council (around 1m wide x 20m in length). The whole garden is enclosed and we have full access to the entirety. Something similar in your case maybe?

Thank you for your words. Could you please tell me how your experience has been so far? Since when have you owned this house? What complications have you had to face? Has the resale value of the house been affected? Have you faced any issues with remortgaging? What has your overall feeling and experience been because of the council’s involvement? Sorry for asking so many questions at once, but I would be very thankful if you could share your experiences. Thank you.

theartfullodger

Depends on ACTUAL wording of tenancy/lease.  But council's lawyers will be MUCH better than yours.

I own a house that had encroached onto council land (rubarb patch) for many years.  (No paperwork).  Council then built some more houses (new council houses!) expecting to build over rubarb.  We negotiated and council built and paid for a new brick garden shed, no more rubarb.  My tenants were surprised.

Extraordinary eh?

Best wishes to all