Is anyone using a powerstation as a home battery for savings with Economy 7?

nappy501

QrizB said:

There was someone a few years ago(2021 maybe?) who fitted a storage battery to his all-electric E7 flat, for much the same reason. I thought his idea had merit but (with electricity and battery prices as they were then) he was looking at a 7-8 year payback and the anti's were scathing.

We then had the energy price spike that we're still in the tail of. I suspect he will have broken even by now.

Anyway, back to your question. You might want to take a look at the EcoFlow Stream range of plugin storage batteries.

I've been to look at the Ecoflow Stream.  I still don't understand what it is, but it is not a straightforward powerstation.  I watched a YouTube video were someone connected one up and their electricity meter was going backwards.  Although, they didn't explain, I can now see why it needs to be wired in by an electrician.

Ectophile

nappy501 said:

QrizB said:

There was someone a few years ago(2021 maybe?) who fitted a storage battery to his all-electric E7 flat, for much the same reason. I thought his idea had merit but (with electricity and battery prices as they were then) he was looking at a 7-8 year payback and the anti's were scathing.

We then had the energy price spike that we're still in the tail of. I suspect he will have broken even by now.

Anyway, back to your question. You might want to take a look at the EcoFlow Stream range of plugin storage batteries.

I've been to look at the Ecoflow Stream.  I still don't understand what it is, but it is not a straightforward powerstation.  I watched a YouTube video were someone connected one up and their electricity meter was going backwards.  Although, they didn't explain, I can now see why it needs to be wired in by an electrician.

That looks like a larger battery bank intended for use with solar power.  Though battery banks can also be configured to charge at night on cheap rate electricity, instead of solar power.  Not the sort of thing you should be installing yourself.

If it is installed with solar, you will need permission from your DNO (District Network Operator).

In the UK, your meter should never go into reverse.  If it does, you're supposed to tell your electricity company so they can swap it for a new one.  These days, that will be a smart meter.

poppasmurf_bewdley

I have 2 Bluetti solar power stations which I bought this year for my off grid caravanning during the summer.  Now the season is over, at home I have one powering my 55 inch Samsung TV whilst the other powers my air fryer and charges my mobility scooter - all recharged overnight at 5p per Kw.  It wasn't something I had planned to do when I bought them, but what the hell, if you've got em, use em!  

Qyburn

I was considering one of the Ecoflow units, specifically because their pass through function allows them to act as a back up, which would be handy if we have chicks under a heat lamp. Aside from that it could run our freezer overnight, or water pump during the day, either of which would save running the generator all the time during power cuts.

nappy501

I'm back again, after doing some more research.  I think this video is what I want https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVb4_T_BoMc  However, I am confused at timestamp 10.35 to 11.30.  This video is two years old is this still the legal situation for this size of powerstation?

nappy501

MforumSManE said:

Good idea in theory but.

What and how are you going to plug in everything that consumes power during the day, assuming you are not going to connect it to your main distribution board with a changeover switch as pictured, you’ll have extension leads all over the house and the manual plug in process per day. Also sounds like a fire waiting to happen not to mention the trip hazard.

I was thinking of something like this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVb4_T_BoMc Although, I am still unclear about how it works?

nappy501

QrizB said:

There was someone a few years ago(2021 maybe?) who fitted a storage battery to his all-electric E7 flat, for much the same reason. I thought his idea had merit but (with electricity and battery prices as they were then) he was looking at a 7-8 year payback and the anti's were scathing.

We then had the energy price spike that we're still in the tail of. I suspect he will have broken even by now.

Anyway, back to your question. You might want to take a look at the EcoFlow Stream range of plugin storage batteries.

Okay, I am beginning to think, I am thinking of the wrong product?  I think Powerstream refers to Ecoflow Delta 2? and Power Stream to plug and play solar, which looks like a big speaker?  I've just posted a video of what I think I want.

nappy501

mmmmikey said:

nappy501 said:

Swipe said:

I looked at this and didn't feel confident plugging my fridge and freezer into it. So for general appliance usage plugged in directly, I calculated that it would be time for a new power station by the time I had broken even.

I understand the worry regarding the fridge and freezer, but I feel more confident because of using my little portable compressor fridge with the powerstation whilst camping.  Initially, I was continually checking the powerstation and fridge that they were still on. Now I don't bother until the second day if there hasn't been much sun.

Hi - I've done this, sort of. I had a campervan with a 2kWh of Lithium batteries, inverter and charger which I kept when I sold the campervan and now use for home use. Does it save money? Yes, a little bit. Would it ever pay for itself if I had bought it for this purpose? Not a hope in hell. Sorry to be so negative, but best to be straightforward about a few things. There are a number of pitfalls, for example:

1. The fridge you are using while camping sounds like it is a 12V model if you use it in the car? If that's the case, and assuming you're using a 240V regular fridge at home, you're not comparing like for like. The powerstation battery will likely happily cope with the inrush current when either of them kick in, but there's a good chance the surge current will trip the inverter (i.e. the thing that converts the battery voltage to mains voltage) if you use it with a domestic fridge. Not necessarily the case, but the powerstations with big enough inverters to cope with starting up a fridge compressor are the big expensive ones. 

2. Following on from the above point, in terms of efficiency, you have to think about the inverter standby energy, which could easily be as much as the energy of the fridge - about 300Wh per day each for fridge and inverter in my case (although I do have an efficient fridge so yours might take more). This makes small powerstations horribly inefficient for running something like a fridge because you need the inverter to be on standby permanently so it's there ready for when the fridge kicks in. By the time you've added in the inverter overhead, you can find yourself using 600Wh per day to run something that uses 300Wh per day - i.e. 50% efficiency. Depending on your tariff you can still save but it crushes the economics to the point where you may only be saving 1p or 2p a day or maybe £5 or £10 a year.

3. If you're on an "extreme" TOU tariff like Agile which has very high highs and very low lows you can improve the economics. And you can also improve the economics by not using the inverter. For example, you might be able to power a broadband router using a 12V supply and appropriate voltage regulator. This is one of the things I do, and coincidentally my broadband router also uses about 300Wh per day.

So it can be a fun project if you're into that kind of thing and if you've got one anyway you might as well take any saving you can get. But the bottom line is that this isn't likely to save you an amount that is of significance in relation to the cost of the powerstation.

Hope this helps in some way - if you have any specific questions, do ask. 

EDIT: for clarity, I have no knowledge or experience of the EcoFlow Stream products so what I'm talking about is the "Jackery" type units that are typically used for camping.

I've been doing more research and watching videos.
1. Yes the fridge I use when camping is plugged into 12v on the powerstation.  It can also be used via a 3 pin plug.  I have checked and yes power is lost continually when using the inverter, estimates 85 to 90% usage.

I am also thinking of the Jackery type unit, but 1000Wh or 2000Wh.
I am now also considering 4x450w solar panels for the garden, but not until next spring.

I am just trying to get the best out of any new powerstation that I get.  I go away 4 to 6 times a year, if I paid for electric hook up everytime at £65 to £70 per week. £70 x 6 =£420 per year.  Then I just leave it in the back bedroom for the rest of the time or I use it in the house.  Are you saying the usage would be such that I would be losing money?  Even if the savings are small, it adds on top of the money I am saving when going away.  How would I work out if I would be losing money?

JKenH

It’s a great idea but as previous posters have said, it won’t save you much money. PPSs are very inefficient - you will be lucky to get 70% back of what you put in- so that has a big impact on the economics of using them in a domestic setting, particularly on a tariff like E7. If, however you are on Octopus Agile they can be useful. Last weekend you could have filled one with, basically, free electricity and then used it last night in the peak period when electricity was over 40p/kWh. You have to be prepared, however, for a lot of messing around switching things over and juggling what you can run at any time.

I actually have 4 PPSs. The first I bought was a Poweroak (Bluetti) EB240 which has a nominal 2.4kWh capacity (actually about 2kWh) to use with a solar panel in the garden and I later bought a second EB240 and a second solar panel. This was a bit of a fun thing but they were very useful powering my motorhome over long weekends at race circuits although the 1kW output meant you were restricted with what appliances they use. They would power a motorhome fridge but will not run my fridge/freezer or freezer at home. I later added a Bluetti AC180 (which you can buy now for £423 new on eBay). This will handle a fridge as it has a  1.8kw output (and 2.7 kW for resistive loads). Although its nominal capacity is 1182Wh I measured it  as only being able to deliver 937Wh. The peak power handling is very good for the money and it charges quickly (1C). I also have a Bluetti AC50S which is only 500Wh but very portable and great for running an old less efficient TV during peak Agile hours. It also is capable of running my central heating for a few hours, if and when we get a power cut and an EB240 could run one for a few hours over several days, so that’s a bit of piece of mind, even though I am assured we won’t be having blackouts. Agile prices went over 90p/kWh last winter so there will be days when I might make full use of all the portable capacity I have. (I should add that I have wanted a domestic battery for several years and am currently awaiting approval for a Tesla Powerwall). 

I would recommend Bluetti over EcoFlow who seem to be the subject of numerous complaints. I accidentally back fed one of my EB240s a mains feed (don’t ask) which blew what my electrician friend described as the main circuit board. He couldn’t source one so in desperation I took it to Bluetti who charged me £80 plus £20 return postage for the repair. I was thinking it was going to be uneconomical to repair so was pleasantly surprised.

If you don’t mind messing around (and like me eagerly look forward to Agile prices being announced at 4pm every day) it can be a fun way of saving a few pence here and there but buy a PPS for the fun factor (and, perhaps, security/peace of mind) not economics.

QrizB

Thanks @JKenH I was thinking of tagging you in this thread but you got here before I did it!