Money Moral Dilemma: Should I ask my lodger to pay more rent because she regularly has guests?

singhini

Rumana03 said:

All the people saying it's the lodger's home too so they should be able to have guests...doesn't mean they can invite any person to come round and stay. I've had lodgers before but they were not allowed overnight guests. I'm sorry but they are not paying for someone else to stay there and you wouldn't have a clue what this person is like...like they could take things from the home or cause damage. Why should the home owner be ok with this? Next thing you know they might have someone stay over who has a pet...or they might start throwing parties in the absence of the home owner. OP you should draw the line now before it gets out of hand.

I had a lodger who told me prior to moving in that their wife would sometimes pop round to see them. I said that was fine. But one day I caught the wife letting herself into the house with a set of keys...so basically he had created a set of keys for her. Straight away I told him that this is not allowed. She was not on the contract so she doesn't get to have access like this to the property.

OP your lodger could even be subletting for all you know. Charging the guests to be able to spend the night at the property. What if one of them moves in permanently and doesn't leave?

Ah thats interesting, i never interpreted that the guests were staying overnight. The sentence i'm not happy about having random people in my home ------> to me the OP is happy with the lodger but no one else (no guests coming over whatsoever. I think if guests were staying the night the OP would have categorically stated this).

Then the OP is focusing on money as a cure to the problem but more money doesn't address the issue i.e. OP is "not happy about having random people in my home"  (extra money will not reduce people coming to the home. On the contrary asking for more money validates the guests as the lodger has now paid for the privilege).


The issue (is the guests) and the proposed solution (more money) IMHO don't go together. OP is to blame if they were not clear about having guests in the lodger agreement.  

If the lodger was to sublet, again that's the OP's fault for not addressing this in the lodger agreement. 

primrose_penguin

You do not say but I take it the rent your lodger pays includes all the electricity, gas, council tax etc. or you would not be worrying about extra people that stay over using it. I also presume the security cameras are outside your property, which I see no problem with as it helps to keep your house and lodger safe. You hear such horror stories about how some tenants treat properties that I would be careful not to upset her, as you say yourself she is clean, tidy and reliable which is so important. I would not worry about her having friends over to stay when you are not there as she is treating it as her home, which is normal, but if they were staying for any length of time I would be a bit concerned about that, unless it was her parents, sister etc. who live away coming to visit.  As long as your own room is not used by people staying over for the night (I would lock it) and she respects your privacy when you are home, by not having friends to stay, I would not worry. However if your bills have increased since her rent was set then I would have a chat to explain this and ask for a higher rent.

Afourteen

Speaking as an ex-Landlord who had a similar (but not identical) issue with a tenant/lodger there are a few items that spring to mind.
Is the 'guest' stopping overnight - if so where? Do they share the lodgers room or sleep elsewhere in the house. 
How regular is the visits/stays? more than a 3 days/nights per week, every week? 
Do they visit only when you are away?
Is it the same 'guest' every time?

Importantly are left in your house by themselves (i.e. your lodger has gone out for work etc)?

Clearly the insurance question as has been raised above is one to consider.

If it's the same person who visits/stops then if you haven't met them then it's really is time you did - I'm sure you can word that respectfully. 
If the frequency is more than 3 nights a week (on average) then addition rent is necessary as is a proper check on the person and get their visits 'regularised' for your own security and peace of mind. 
If the answer to the above is that the lodgers guest is not the same person then you ought to be asking what she is doing. 
If the visitor if left in the house when the lodger goes out, for any reason, then that, to me is a big No-No and the lodger should given fair warning. 

teresa54

You could just say bills have gone up so would she mind sharing the extra cost. No need to mention guests or any concerns about usage. Everyone knows utilities cost more. Depends when last raise was, though. 

JPGR

I think that it would be a bit petty to expect her to pay for the small expense of extra people staying over. I would talk to her about it and make sure that she can vouch for these visitors. You could always put a charity box somewhere in the house and ask if her guests could put some cash in whenever they stay over. This would be something positive that could make everyone feel better. 

grassmarket

Agree with Afourteen on all the practical things to find out & regularise.
But before all that: you need to decide what you want. Then have an adult, non-judgemental conversation about how to achieve that.

It’s your property & you’re responsible for it. If you don’t want any overnighters, or strict limits - that’s 100% your decision to make. 
All these comments about ‘it’s their home too’ - no it isn’t. They’re just a lodger - albeit a good one, apparently. 

But not that good a lodger if they’ve started having overnight guests without your knowledge/agreement. IMO hat’s definitely not acceptable. 

Once you’ve established your own ground rules & found out who she wants to stay & how often - only then would cost come into it. 

Rocketdogroya

Have they had guests from the start and it has been going on for months but you only just reviewed the recordings or is the a new or gradual build up sort of thing? She may have tested the waters a few times knowing about the cameras and when nothing was said has taken it as ok?
I would be more concerned with confirming the ground rules than asking for more money, unless the guest is using the home like they live there and doing laundry etc then it will be costing a noticeable difference.

Like others have suggested I would broach the subject but from an insurance perspective so its more neutral and she doesn't feel instantly defensive as that can be the start of an irreparable rift.

Remember you have a great tenant but she also has a VERY sweet deal as a lodger who basically gets her own house as your away a lot. I am guessing you will both rather come to an agreement that's suitable than risk a good deal from both sides.

Compromise is key as you don't really wanna lose her. 1 friend per week or meet the friend 1st or something.

Daggers80

A couple of things stand out here, on your side which I’ll get into before answering your question.

1. You mention you are often away from home and have a lodger agreement.

Depending on how often you’re away from home you might well be using the wrong agreement here..
A lodger is someone who lives in your home of residence, with you. If you’re not living there ‘often’ then you may well be classed as a live out landlord.
Even if you have a lodger agreement, if the lodger can evidence that you’re not there often, then they are, in fact, a tenant. So you need to be careful with how you approach this.
I suspect you have a lodger agreement because that gives you more rights to evict without the feed, needing to go to court, etc. But that is all pointless if you’re not actually living there enough, and you’re not classed as a live-in landlord. Their rights then become tenanted.

2. You have been using CCTV cameras to check what your housemate has been up to.

This action breaks many privacy laws.
Your lodger/tenant has a right to a private life, under the Human Rights Act 1998.
Article 8 confirms each human being has a right to respect for private and family life. By using CCTV footage to check what your lodger/tenant is up to invades this right for privacy.
It would be hard to prove that you were checking CCTV footage at the times when your lodger had someone round by way of security checking. 

This is a clear breach and your lodger/tenant would have every right to obtain an injunction against you using these cameras for the purpose of checking in on them.
Personally, I would advise you to stop doing using these immediately for the purposes of snooping.

Finally, if you were home more (as an actual live-in landlord) then I suspect none of this would be happening, so you must be away enough to be considered a non live-in landlord, otherwise they wouldn’t know when you’d be back. 

So, before you go asking for more money, consider this; if you ask for more money and it causes a rift, and they leave, will you get someone else as respectful as you have now?
The grass isn’t always greener..

Now, as others have mentioned here, you should really only be asking for more money if you have seen an increase in bills. Wear and tear will be minimal, unless there is evidence of damage. In which case, in both cases, you should firstly have a chat with your lodger, and come at it from a point of view that you have noticed an increase in usage / charges, and noticed damage. And ask them if anything has changed on their end. They may tell you what’s been happening. At which point you can agree that due to the increased costs and damage you will be increasing the monthly amount by the increased bills amount (don’t try and swindle for more money - just get what’s owed).

At least this way you keep your scheme of lodging when it should be tenancy, and you keep a good, solid person to look after your home when you’re hardly ever there.

Section62

Daggers80 said:

...
2. You have been using CCTV cameras to check what your housemate has been up to.

This action breaks many privacy laws.
Your lodger/tenant has a right to a private life, under the Human Rights Act 1998.
Article 8 confirms each human being has a right to respect for private and family life. By using CCTV footage to check what your lodger/tenant is up to invades this right for privacy.
It would be hard to prove that you were checking CCTV footage at the times when your lodger had someone round by way of security checking. 

This is a clear breach and your lodger/tenant would have every right to obtain an injunction against you using these cameras for the purpose of checking in on them.
Personally, I would advise you to stop doing using these immediately for the purposes of snooping

....

I don't think it is a clear breach.  You've characterised the use of CCTV as "to check what your lodger/tenant is up to" and "snooping", but from what is said in the OP it isn't clear that is the case.

For example, if the cameras send alerts - e.g. when someone is seen approaching the front door - and the OP found out about the lodger's visitors as a by-product of reviewing those alerts, then the nature of the OP's 'monitoring' looks rather different - I think it would be fairly straightforward to 'prove' that checking footage recorded at the time an alert was sent constituted 'security checking'.

If you are correct about HRA 1998 then it seems it would effectively rule out the use of any doorbell camera device which has recording/alerting enabled if there is any person other than yourself living at the property.  Which seems unlikely.

What are the other "many privacy laws" which you think are being broken here?

Shell1989

Don’t raise the rent if you’re otherwise happy with your lodger, and why shouldn’t she have guests in the house she pays for a room in? If you need to raise rent due to cost of living, then do so for that reason, but don’t make it about the guests.