Solicitors have lost my FIL’s Will

MyRealNameToo

kind_intentions said:

Robin9 said:

Is your copy signed and witnessed ?

Yes it was done in 2008 and the copy was safe at home. 

Then what's the issue? You have a legitimate copy of the will and intend to appoint a different solicitor just give your copy of the will to the new solicitor. 

Flugelhorn

MyRealNameToo said:

kind_intentions said:

Robin9 said:

Is your copy signed and witnessed ?

Yes it was done in 2008 and the copy was safe at home. 

Then what's the issue? You have a legitimate copy of the will and intend to appoint a different solicitor just give your copy of the will to the new solicitor. 

because a copy is not valid for probate purposes

MyRealNameToo

Flugelhorn said:

MyRealNameToo said:

kind_intentions said:

Robin9 said:

Is your copy signed and witnessed ?

Yes it was done in 2008 and the copy was safe at home. 

Then what's the issue? You have a legitimate copy of the will and intend to appoint a different solicitor just give your copy of the will to the new solicitor. 

because a copy is not valid for probate purposes

Depends on what we mean by "a copy"... if its a genuine copy with wet signatures then probate would have no knowledge that a second version of it existed

If it is a photocopy then its not an absolute no either, Probate can be convinced to accept it in certain circumstances, they need to be convinced that the original was simply lost rather than deliberately destroyed/ revoked. The solicitor admitting that its their mismanagement and wasnt by instruction of the testor would significantly help here. Of cause it can still be an uphill struggle particularly if family members that would be better off under intestate rules object and claim it was intentionally revoked. 

kind_intentions

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Who inherits his estate? If the will can’t be found would those beneficiaries still inherit the same under the rules of intestacy?

Good point - and if it isn’t the same would the beneficiaries under intestacy be willing to do a deed of variation to put the situation back to that in the Will? Honestly that would be so much easier than fighting to get a copy Will accepted, especially if the solicitors aren’t happy to help. I lost my rag with the solicitors in our case - mainly because they wanted me to employ them to do the probate despite the fact they’d been careless enough to lose the Will! - but when I firmly stated what I wanted from them for me to apply for probate they were contrite enough to produce what was needed. It doesn’t sound like this might be so easy with your solicitors. 

I don’t think this has been an issue before because the assets were the home which has gone to the MIL and the bank accounts which were changed from joint to her name only. So it’s only when trying to do the probate the original will has become an issue. Maybe someone will advise me if Im missing something here. Not heard of a deed of variation before. Would this apply? 

kind_intentions

MyRealNameToo said:

Flugelhorn said:

MyRealNameToo said:

kind_intentions said:

Robin9 said:

Is your copy signed and witnessed ?

Yes it was done in 2008 and the copy was safe at home. 

Then what's the issue? You have a legitimate copy of the will and intend to appoint a different solicitor just give your copy of the will to the new solicitor. 

because a copy is not valid for probate purposes

Depends on what we mean by "a copy"... if its a genuine copy with wet signatures then probate would have no knowledge that a second version of it existed

If it is a photocopy then its not an absolute no either, Probate can be convinced to accept it in certain circumstances, they need to be convinced that the original was simply lost rather than deliberately destroyed/ revoked. The solicitor admitting that its their mismanagement and wasnt by instruction of the testor would significantly help here. Of cause it can still be an uphill struggle particularly if family members that would be better off under intestate rules object and claim it was intentionally revoked. 

Yes it’s only a photocopy I think. I will have to recheck! Is it best to contact probate services or whatever they are called and ask for advice ? Then I will know what I need to ask the solicitors to provide me with. 

poppystar

kind_intentions said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Who inherits his estate? If the will can’t be found would those beneficiaries still inherit the same under the rules of intestacy?

Good point - and if it isn’t the same would the beneficiaries under intestacy be willing to do a deed of variation to put the situation back to that in the Will? Honestly that would be so much easier than fighting to get a copy Will accepted, especially if the solicitors aren’t happy to help. I lost my rag with the solicitors in our case - mainly because they wanted me to employ them to do the probate despite the fact they’d been careless enough to lose the Will! - but when I firmly stated what I wanted from them for me to apply for probate they were contrite enough to produce what was needed. It doesn’t sound like this might be so easy with your solicitors. 

I don’t think this has been an issue before because the assets were the home which has gone to the MIL and the bank accounts which were changed from joint to her name only. So it’s only when trying to do the probate the original will has become an issue. Maybe someone will advise me if Im missing something here. Not heard of a deed of variation before. Would this apply? 

Ok - so first question…do you need Probate for anything at all? If the property was held as joint tenants and the banks have been changed, were there other significant assets you need to get released?

Deeds of variation are a way of changing what the Will says or what would happen under intestacy if beneficiaries want their inheritance to go elsewhere. It honestly sounds like you may not need these. 

Clarify what you need Probate for, then the advice can go from there🙂

RAS

What's the total value of the estate, including any property?

kind_intentions

poppystar said:

kind_intentions said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Who inherits his estate? If the will can’t be found would those beneficiaries still inherit the same under the rules of intestacy?

Good point - and if it isn’t the same would the beneficiaries under intestacy be willing to do a deed of variation to put the situation back to that in the Will? Honestly that would be so much easier than fighting to get a copy Will accepted, especially if the solicitors aren’t happy to help. I lost my rag with the solicitors in our case - mainly because they wanted me to employ them to do the probate despite the fact they’d been careless enough to lose the Will! - but when I firmly stated what I wanted from them for me to apply for probate they were contrite enough to produce what was needed. It doesn’t sound like this might be so easy with your solicitors. 

I don’t think this has been an issue before because the assets were the home which has gone to the MIL and the bank accounts which were changed from joint to her name only. So it’s only when trying to do the probate the original will has become an issue. Maybe someone will advise me if Im missing something here. Not heard of a deed of variation before. Would this apply? 

Ok - so first question…do you need Probate for anything at all? If the property was held as joint tenants and the banks have been changed, were there other significant assets you need to get released?

Deeds of variation are a way of changing what the Will says or what would happen under intestacy if beneficiaries want their inheritance to go elsewhere. It honestly sounds like you may not need these. 

Clarify what you need Probate for, then the advice can go from there🙂

As I understand it we need probate to release the premium bonds which are in the region of 30K. Otherwise you’re right nothing else at all that we would need probate for. 

poppystar

kind_intentions said:

poppystar said:

kind_intentions said:

poppystar said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Who inherits his estate? If the will can’t be found would those beneficiaries still inherit the same under the rules of intestacy?

Good point - and if it isn’t the same would the beneficiaries under intestacy be willing to do a deed of variation to put the situation back to that in the Will? Honestly that would be so much easier than fighting to get a copy Will accepted, especially if the solicitors aren’t happy to help. I lost my rag with the solicitors in our case - mainly because they wanted me to employ them to do the probate despite the fact they’d been careless enough to lose the Will! - but when I firmly stated what I wanted from them for me to apply for probate they were contrite enough to produce what was needed. It doesn’t sound like this might be so easy with your solicitors. 

I don’t think this has been an issue before because the assets were the home which has gone to the MIL and the bank accounts which were changed from joint to her name only. So it’s only when trying to do the probate the original will has become an issue. Maybe someone will advise me if Im missing something here. Not heard of a deed of variation before. Would this apply? 

Ok - so first question…do you need Probate for anything at all? If the property was held as joint tenants and the banks have been changed, were there other significant assets you need to get released?

Deeds of variation are a way of changing what the Will says or what would happen under intestacy if beneficiaries want their inheritance to go elsewhere. It honestly sounds like you may not need these. 

Clarify what you need Probate for, then the advice can go from there🙂

As I understand it we need probate to release the premium bonds which are in the region of 30K. Otherwise you’re right nothing else at all that we would need probate for. 

Oh, yes, that’s a pain! I gather some people have managed to get large amounts released by NS&I - may be worth waiting on the phone for an hour or so? 

Marcon

Flugelhorn said:

MyRealNameToo said:

kind_intentions said:

Robin9 said:

Is your copy signed and witnessed ?

Yes it was done in 2008 and the copy was safe at home. 

Then what's the issue? You have a legitimate copy of the will and intend to appoint a different solicitor just give your copy of the will to the new solicitor. 

because a copy is not valid for probate purposes

It can be.

OP, if the solicitors fail to find the original, see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/report-a-will-is-lost-to-support-a-probate-application/how-to-report-a-lost-will-to-support-a-probate-application

Make it clear to the solicitors that you expect them to meet any costs associated with having to follow this route.