Help with 5 Euro Car Parks PCNs now with DCBL – only just found out due to DVLA address issue

MikeC10

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate some advice on where we stand with this.

We’ve just received a letter from DCBL for five PCNs issued by Euro Car Parks in 2024 and 2025. The total balance they’re chasing is £775.

This is the first letter we’ve ever received about any of these PCNs. After looking into it, we’ve discovered that the issue is our car’s V5C was still registered to our old address, which is obviously our fault. We had attempted to update our address with a v62 form and the green new keepers slip of the vehicle, as we didn't have the log book. We then misplaced our post back from the DVLA saying that we needed to resend our V62 form and pay £25 to update the address, instead. Frustrating on a few levels, as this is ultimately what has caused us not to receie any of the said parking charges.

The car park is a local Euro Car Parks site for a Sainsbury’s, and we didn't even realise it was pay and display. We are going to investigate if the signage is clear, as I am sure we would have noticed this before if it was. We would have paid the first PCN if we’d received it and then avoided repeating the mistake too.

Where do we stand legally, given we never had the chance to appeal because of the address issue?

1. Should we try to negotiate directly with Euro Car Parks, or are we stuck dealing with DCBL?

2. Is there any realistic chance of reducing this to the original PCN amounts only (5 × £85 = £425, DCBL are charing an additional £75 per fine!), or even challenging them altogether if signage is non-compliant?

3. What happens if this goes to court – are the “debt recovery” fees usually disallowed?

Any advice on how best to handle this would be massively appreciated.

Car1980

No, the debt recovery fees are not enforceable, unless you get a rogue judge. Makes it easier if they're not on the signs though.

There is no negotiation, but everything goes through DCB Legal. Have you had a letter from DCBL (the debt collectors)?

The signage is the contract, so gather evidence now. Most court cases that go to a hearing are dependent on signage. Post your photos here.

There is of course the argument that the terms must not be clear enough if "the man on the Clapham Omnibus" repeats a mistake 5 times.

The onus is always on the Claimant to make their claim.

MikeC10

thank you - yes we had the letter from the dcbl and that was the only way we even knew about the parking tickets, as they had all obviously gone to our previous address. We know that the signage definitely is completely obvious in the car park, so I am feeling like photos and perhaps a video walk through as you enter the car park to prove that would be best.

Would I have to now just communicate this dispute with DCBL or with Euro Car Parks? As we have missed our appeal time due to never seeing our original ticket letters. I have since asked DCBL to put the collection on hold until we can gather our evidence etc.

Car1980

You don't have communicate with anyone, but responding to the Letter Before Claim when it arrives is a good idea.

This will go all the way to a informal court hearing with a county court judge as it is a DCB case as it's over £600.

Have a read of the template defence whilst you get your photos. There should also be a white one at the entrance saying it's private land.

MikeC10

I have some photos here; slightly difficult to demonstrate, but there is one yellow sign on the entrance area, however it is over the right hand side of the entrance, and you have to turn left away from the sign when you enter, this is why we haven't ever noticed the sign, as it isn't on the drivers side, and as you come off of the roundabout, you veer off left. I feel that this is a terrible placement for something important like this, but not sure how that holds up:



Here is a sign that is basically falling off, that is placed next to a payment machine, this is not near the entrance to the actual shop. There is another payment machine to the right hand side (but not that near to the entrance to the sainsburies). It is very easy to just walk from the car park directly into Sainsburies without even noticing the machines or any clear signage:


We usually park in this area, and the entrance is to the right of the arrow, again, no clear signage, the only sign to say 'pay and display' is actually facing away from you, as the next pictures show:





Do you think these photos help to dispute? Should I be worried about going to court with this and then having my credit rating affected if a CCJ is issued? I feel strongly that the signage is not clear, as I have seen other super market car parks with pay and displays that are 100x more clear and obvious. Thank you for your help so far, apologies for the essay.

Coupon-mad

Good pics. But if the PCNs went to an old address you can't appeal, so you may as well let it go to a court claim next year. Nothing bad happens as long as you defend. No CCJ.

1. What happens if this goes to court – are the “debt recovery” fees usually disallowed?

Yes. They've added £70 per PCN which is extortionate and would never be allowed.

Wanna help our push to get these fake 'debt recovery fees' banned?

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We understand that you may need some pointers. It looks laborious, we get that. It doesn't matter; no knowledge is needed except re your own experiences so you can call out a scam industry and you'll protect millions of motorists and help change the law. 

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For ease and inspiration read the Which? response they've just published:

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MikeC10

Thank you, I will do this. Will the fact that we had not updated our address or the vehicle hurt our defence against these fines at all? I will be going back to the car park tonight to get a full video of the drive in and walk to the store to show the lack of signage too, and then wait for their next letter.

I have read the help guides, thank you - if there is no risk in defending and if we have to pay (the fines only) within 30 days of the judgement without any risk of a CCJ on our record, then we will go all the way with this.

James_Poisson

Why are you calling these speculative invoices "fines"?

Any video / photograph you use needs to be date stamped to use as evidence, you obviously don't use the blue Pay on Arrival" close up, you want general long shots showing lack of signage or defective signage. Only use lose ups that show in your favour.

That entrance sign does not appear to conform to the Joint COP (though you can't see the wording in the photo).

The signage requirements are specified in 3.1.2:

The entrance sign must display:
a) the fact that terms and conditions apply to accessing/parking on the site;
b) whether payment is required, or whether free parking is only available for a
limited period;
c) the name of the parking operator;
d) the logo of the ATA to which the parking operator belongs; and
e) where payment is required, whether on-site cash payment is available.
f) Private land

The signage specifications are in Annex A:

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/Sector Code Templates/sectorsingleCodeofPracticeVersion1.1130225.pdf

Coupon-mad

Will the fact that we had not updated our address or the vehicle hurt our defence against these fines at all?

No.

And they aren't fines. No CCJ is risked by defending.

MikeC10

Thank you for helping - I went and got a video tonight of driving into the car park, parking and then walking directly in to the store to clearly show how there isn't any clear signange at all. I will get a better close up pic of that sign near the entrance to see if it compliant too.. hopefully not! 

Definitely a relief to know that there is no risk to my credit rating if I defend the CCJ (if and when it comes) as long as I pay up if I lose within 30 days. 

Coupon-mad

MikeC10 said:

Thank you for helping - I went and got a video tonight of driving into the car park, parking and then walking directly in to the store to clearly show how there isn't any clear signange at all. I will get a better close up pic of that sign near the entrance to see if it compliant too.. hopefully not! 

Definitely a relief to know that there is no risk to my credit rating if I defend the CCJ (if and when it comes) as long as I pay up if I lose within 30 days. 

Which is also in the MSE Guide linked at the top of the page & checked by Martin Lewis this Summer.