Outfox refusing to give full refund

backyardee

When I joined Outfox a year ago, they charged me £145 per month, then put me up to £217. I have solar panels. I have recently changed my tariff with them and am now paying £150 per month. I am £250 in credit. When I asked for refund, I was told I could have £100 back as they like to have a month direct debit in advance. Any other company that I have been with before, has always refunded the full amount. Is Outfox going to the wall? and needing to hold onto money to save themselves. I hope to be moving house soon and if they don't offer a full refund I will probably go to another provider. But is anyone else not getting full refunds from Outfox or other companies. 

Ayr_Rage

Sounds pretty normal and going into autumn just about all providers would expect your account to be in credit.

molerat

They are complying with OFGEM policy of keeping customer accounts in credit.  You could always ask if they will do variable DD where you pay for your monthly use but that could lead to higher payments in winter.

Keep_pedalling

Considering how much you have been paying that is actually a pretty small credit level for heading into winter where usage goes up and solar generation is minimal. Are you all electric or does that cost include gas?

Are you on a fixed tariff with exit fees? If not their is nothing stopping switching to a company that offered a variable DD payment option where why pay for exactly how much you use per month, but to do that you have to be in a position to pay off large winter bills without putting you in the red.

BikingBud

molerat said:

They are complying with OFGEM policy of keeping customer accounts in credit.  You could always ask if they will do variable DD where you pay for your monthly use but that could lead to higher payments in winter.

Rubbish, they do not have to keep your account in credit it is a risk decision by them that keeps your money.

I have challenged Octopus on this a number of times and they have confirmed that they still use this model:




I agreed the I would reset my balance in May, but it makes little difference. 

Full details here: https://octopus.energy/blog/credit-refund-account-balance/#:~:text=On%20the%20whole,%20you%20should,might%20be%20worth%20refunding%20some

born_again

backyardee said:

When I joined Outfox a year ago, they charged me £145 per month, then put me up to £217. I have solar panels. I have recently changed my tariff with them and am now paying £150 per month. I am £250 in credit. When I asked for refund, I was told I could have £100 back as they like to have a month direct debit in advance. Any other company that I have been with before, has always refunded the full amount. Is Outfox going to the wall? and needing to hold onto money to save themselves. I hope to be moving house soon and if they don't offer a full refund I will probably go to another provider. But is anyone else not getting full refunds from Outfox or other companies. 

So with over a year of monthly payments you are only £250 in credit, even with solar & paying £217. Guess you must have been in debit at some point.

I'm £500 in credit & that will only just cover the extra over winter. Which includes me changing DD from £100 (covers monthly bill) to £150, or maybe more depending on the weather.

Merlin139

backyardee said:

When I joined Outfox a year ago, they charged me £145 per month, then put me up to £217. I have solar panels. I have recently changed my tariff with them and am now paying £150 per month. I am £250 in credit. When I asked for refund, I was told I could have £100 back as they like to have a month direct debit in advance. Any other company that I have been with before, has always refunded the full amount. Is Outfox going to the wall? and needing to hold onto money to save themselves. I hope to be moving house soon and if they don't offer a full refund I will probably go to another provider. But is anyone else not getting full refunds from Outfox or other companies. 

When you move then you will get a final bill within 6 weeks of moving. Then they have 2 weeks to refund what is owed to you. Having solar panels does not mean anything if your usage is high. You might have low Electric usage and most of your production is going back into the grid. 

Do you actually know if your account is actually in credit based on what your actual meter readings are?

I would be amazed if the property you are moving to is supplied by Outfox. You will be a customer of what ever company is providing you new home. Then you would have to move to Outfox. 

Your decision to move to a new supplier wont bother Outfox. They have said that they will refund your balance less 1 months DD. That has been that way with them since the beginning and it would have been in the T&C's that you agreed to when you joined them. If that is not acceptable to you then move to another supplier.

Is Outfox going to the wall? No more or less than they might have been in the last 10 years.

WiserMiser

@BikingBud The Octopus graph and text explains how the so-called 'Fixed' DD system used to work.   It was essentially swings and roundabouts: half the time you were in credit, half the time you were in debit.

However, dear old Ofgem happily granted licences to all sorts of front room / bedroom companies.  Often they just crossed their fingers, not securing their supplies by hedging, or they acted like Ponzi organisations.

When wholesale prices suddenly rocketed after the invasion of Ukraine many were caught out, and around 30 companies ceased trading.

Ofgem then changed the rules, requiring 'Fixed' DDs to remain in credit throughout the year.

It may be that the Octopus info is now out of date.

Ildhund

WiserMiser said:

Ofgem then changed the rules, requiring 'Fixed' DDs to remain in credit throughout the year.

@WiserMiser I haven't been able to find any documentation for this requirement. Can you please provide a reference?

WiserMiser

WiserMiser said:

@BikingBud It may be that the Octopus info is now out of date.

@BikingBud Yes, as I suspected, Octopus changed the rules less than four weeks ago.

https://octopus.energy/policies/terms-and-conditions/

They now state that "you should keep your account in credit" (8.3.1)

"We typically ask for a deposit or payment in advance of connecting your supply. The amount to be paid may be based on your credit history according to a credit reference agency." (8.4)

WiserMiser

Ildhund said:

WiserMiser said:

Ofgem then changed the rules, requiring 'Fixed' DDs to remain in credit throughout the year.

@WiserMiser I haven't been able to find any documentation for this requirement. Can you please provide a reference?

From https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmpubacc/41/summary.html: The Committee of Public Accounts reported the following:-

Minimum Capital Requirement

All energy suppliers who supply energy to homes must have a minimum amount of financial buffer so that they are resilient to changes in the energy market. This is called a ‘common minimum capital requirement’. This requirement helps to lower the risk of suppliers going out of business during uncertain times, for example when energy prices went up in 2021.

Customer Credit Balances

Suppliers must not overly rely on customers money to fund their business. We may tell suppliers to set aside customer credit balances from other financial resources in certain circumstances. This means that if an energy customer’s account is in credit, their supplier will still have the money to repay in a timely manner.

Minimum Capital Requirement

Licensed energy companies who supply energy to domestic customers must meet a Capital Target of £115 of adjusted net assets per dual fuel equivalent customer, with a Capital Floor of zero pounds.  Adjusted net assets describes the types of capital that are more likely to be able to absorb losses so that companies are more resilient to sudden changes in market conditions.

From https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmpubacc/41/summary.html

On 13 Nov 22 the Committee of Public Accounts reported that the SoLR costs incurred by the failed energy companies meant that all customers had to pay an extra £94 because of Ofgem's poor performance.  Adjusted for inflation since then, that £115 figure seems spot on.