Deprivation of Assets before going into a care home

dunstonh

It may be worth defining whether it is residential care or nursing care.     The differences in residential care are likely to be greater than in nursing care.

Yorkie1

Linton said:

I dont think the LA can demand anything.  All they can do is to say how much, if anything, they are prepared to contribute to fund the care. What then happens would be up to your uncle and those who manage his affairs if he does not have capacity.  The council may agree to pay the charges and then have the costs charged to your uncle's estate.  Or the council could apply to the courts to have the money recovered from the beneficiaries of any gifts.

I think Linton helpfully sets out that the LA has options in the event that your uncle runs out of money to self-fund (or at least reaches the limit) and is considered by the LA to have deliberately deprived himself of assets so that he reaches that limit sooner than he would have done if he had not given those assets away. Nobody here can say for sure what approach the LA may take.

You may consider that the 'optics' of an LA suing a charity for money will be poor, so it may be that the council decides on an alternative route. But nobody knows for sure, particularly as I think you indicated that he doesn't own his own property against which a charge might be placed.

Just thinking about the details in a will, if he does wish to change it to include gifts to charity, it would be worth considering whether a % or an absolute amount is given. This could impact on what is left to the residual beneficiary/ies.

For example, he has £100K now. He makes specific bequests of £20K each to two separate charities. He does need to go back into residential accommodation, and when he passes away his bank balance is down to £20K. The charities will have that amount split equally between them, and the residual beneficiary/ies will get nothing.

Alternatively, he has £100K now. He makes bequests of 20% of his eventual estate to each of two separate charities, residue to beneficiary/ies. When he passes away, his bank balance is down to £20K. [Ignoring any costs for funeral etc, just to illustrate the point]. The charities will get £4K each, and the residual beneficiary/ies get £16K.

sheramber

bt7019 said:

Firstly appreciate all the responses.

Regarding the actual care home, the staff & food & set up were fine but he’s reasonably good mind wise & whilst not on a dementia floor, there were people with a degree of dementia walking into his room, shouting they want to go home etc etc & luckily I told him to keep his authority rented flat a few weeks just in case he didn’t like the home. Thankfully this time he has a choice to live at home but next time his care needs may be different & he might not.  He needs better support so I’m going to look into the private ambulance response options instead if he has another fall as last time it was a 4 hour wait to be lifted up. 

with the will, yes he does have one & I’m the main beneficiary. I’m aware that I probably need to get him to change it to include the charities rather than simply ask me to as it’ll be better for tax implications on how much I can donate. All I’m  really trying to do here is try to get some charities to benefit now which avoids needing to change the will & guarantees that at least they’d benefit even if he ends up going into a home again in the future.

it was simply trying to explore what would actually happen in reality if he gives a large sum to charity then goes into a home & after a couple of years the funds run out & need the authority to take over (the home he was briefly in was one that the LA would take over funding for when self funding runs out). Giving away the money now shouldn’t affect the quality of care as it’ll be in the same home on the same cost level.

But you said he didn’t like that home.

If he had to stay there, and he might not have a choice,  how would he cope? 

Or , there may not be a LA funded place  available in that home,

so he would be moved somewhere else.
Again no choice where or what level of facilities were available. 

Is it more important  that a charity gets some of his money than he has a comfortable last few years?

twopenny

Perhaps there could be other options
It's possible that another care home might be somewhere he'd be more comfortable. They certainly aren't all the same.
I've known 4 very independent people go into one of their choosing and be happy there.
Having the right room helps a lot. Ie facing a garden or the sea.

We also have Abbeyfield smaller residential care in what was a large private home, which suits others.

We also have some fairly cheap though small flats or bungalows with a community area and onsite warden.