Deprivation of Assets before going into a care home

bt7019

My uncle has a 6 figure savings amount but his total assets are below inheritance tax levels. He recently went into a care home though hated it & has returned to his flat - a costly exercise bringing home the reality of saving for old age & passing some of that on.

I'm realistic that he may have no alternative at some point in the future to go back into a home, but he’s already asked me to donate some of the money to charity (around £40000 hopefully) when he dies. What I’m wondering is what could happen if he decides to donate that money now & in say 2 years he goes into a home. Once his savings has run out & the authority take it on, it’s quite likely they might say that he’s deprived himself deliberately, but what  could they do about it if it’s clearly given to a charity? I can appreciate if he gave the money to me then they could possibly demand that back, but can they do anything about a charity donation ?

Thank you in advance for any help

elsien

if he’s been in a care home once already then it’s reasonably foreseeable that he could need one in the future. If he has enough money left to fund himself for as long as needed, then no one will bat an eyelid. If he doesn’t, then yes giving 40 K away is very likely to be seen as DDA. Whether it’s to a charity or an individual is irrelevant.
However will also depend on whether he has a previous history of making large gifts to charity

However if he’s already asked for it to be donated after he passes, then why are you talking about giving it now instead?No point stirring up issues if you don’t need to. 

I would also suggest that if he wants money to go to charity he includes that in his will rather than relying on it is an expression of wishes. 

Keep_pedalling

If he wants to donate to charity after he has died then he should do so by making a will not asking someone to do it.

If he unfortunately needs residencial care then having significant savings gives him more choice and it gives him the option of paying for help at home which would hopefully minimise how much time he would need residencial so he would be foolish to give large sums away now. Does he own his flat? 

Linton

I dont think the LA can demand anything.  All they can do is to say how much, if anything, they are prepared to contribute to fund the care. What then happens would be up to your uncle and those who manage his affairs if he does not have capacity.  The council may agree to pay the charges and then have the costs charged to your uncle's estate.  Or the council could apply to the courts to have the money recovered from the beneficiaries of any gifts.

What is the objective in giving money to a charity before death? Surely if he has to go into care both he and especially his family would want him to get the best conditions available.

If your uncle does want his money donated to a charity after his death he should put it in a will. Otherwise, if he does not have a will, the default split of assets would apply.

Marcon

bt7019 said:

My uncle has a 6 figure savings amount but his total assets are below inheritance tax levels. He recently went into a care home though hated it & has returned to his flat - a costly exercise bringing home the reality of saving for old age & passing some of that on.

I'm realistic that he may have no alternative at some point in the future to go back into a home, but he’s already asked me to donate some of the money to charity (around £40000 hopefully) when he dies. What I’m wondering is what could happen if he decides to donate that money now & in say 2 years he goes into a home. Once his savings has run out & the authority take it on, it’s quite likely they might say that he’s deprived himself deliberately, but what  could they do about it if it’s clearly given to a charity? I can appreciate if he gave the money to me then they could possibly demand that back, but can they do anything about a charity donation ?

Thank you in advance for any help

If your uncle gave money away now (when it is already apparent that he is likely to have significant care costs in the not too distant future), the chances of the council seeing it as anything other than deliberate deprivation of assets must be slim to non existent - and they could then simply decline to 'take on' the costs as you suggest. 

There's another worrying feature raised in your post. Does your uncle have a will? If not, then (as mentioned above), when he dies his assets will be distributed in line with the rules of intestacy - and it would be for the beneficiaries to decide whether or not to donate to charity. If he does have a will, then why not include (either by updating the whole will or adding a codicil - legal advice essential to ensure it's valid) a provision for such a donation? Otherwise it would again be for the beneficiaries to decide whether or not to give up some or all of their inheritance. 

badmemory

I am worried by what he has been said.  I suspect that your uncle now has the same attitude to care homes as I have.  I will not be going in one.  It does not matter how good it is, unless it is a very temporary measure it is not somewhere I want to be.

Baldytyke88

bt7019 said:

My uncle has a 6 figure savings amount but his total assets are below inheritance tax levels. He recently went into a care home though hated it & has returned to his flat - a costly exercise bringing home the reality of saving for old age & passing some of that on.

The average stay in a care home can range from about 12 to 30 months, but this is highly dependent on the individual's health and the type of care home; so your uncle may not run out of money.

elsien

badmemory said:

I am worried by what he has been said.  I suspect that your uncle now has the same attitude to care homes as I have.  I will not be going in one.  It does not matter how good it is, unless it is a very temporary measure it is not somewhere I want to be.

There isn’t always a choice. my grandmother desperately wanted to stay at home but then she lost her sight and her mobility, needed two carers, and wasn’t really safe in between calls. She had her faculties, but she couldn’t afford to pay for the 24 hour level of care that would’ve been needed to keep her there. 
Ditto the people with dementia who keep wandering off or become aggressive because of their illness.
Very few people want to be in a care home. Many never need to go to one, but never seen never because you just don’t know.

Marcon

badmemory said:

I am worried by what he has been said.  I suspect that your uncle now has the same attitude to care homes as I have.  I will not be going in one.  It does not matter how good it is, unless it is a very temporary measure it is not somewhere I want to be.

I doubt many people would choose to end their days in a care home, but doing otherwise is not always an option...

dunstonh

If your uncle didn't like it when he was funding it, how do you think he would like it if it was local authority funded?

badmemory

It is possible to be prepared, but you need to be mentally prepared too.  If you have ever seen anyone die of dementia you really would not want that.