Massively out of pocket after no fault claim

bluphoto

A couple of months ago, our beloved 2015 ford focus diesel estate had a head gasket failure. Our options were to spend 8k+ on a newer car (we have around 10k nest-egg but I'm worried about job security so prefer to keep that), or to get it fixed.
Garage recommended a replacement engine, so we spent 2500 and put in as low a mileage engine as I could find (41,000 miles) including ALL the ancillaries, from turbo, DMF, EGR system, Injectors etc to make sure the car would last us for many years to come. We basically replaced everything that could potentially cause us any major issues in the future. I agree there are other reliability areas on a car, but those are much more easily DIY repairable than a replacment engine. My car had done 130k miles, and I could have just put in another high mileage engine, but that wouldn't really have extended the cars life by much - so figured this was ain investment in our future.

Three weeks later, someone turned right across my path, directly in front of me, and wrote off both cars. Gutted that I had potentially lost my investment though no fault of my own. Her insurer contacted (captured) me so I went with that - thinking that as I don't have a policy/contract directly with them, I won't be restricted to "market valuation".

Of course thats exactly what they offered. I showed them the garage receipts etc and they said they had considered that, but that the car was only worth £3800. I agree, if I had chosen to sell it, thats likely what I would have got, but though Tort/Delict, I understand they have to restore me to pre-accident condition - which is with a 130,000 mile car, with a 41,000 mile engine - or, to press my point, any ileage of car with a 41,000 mile engine.
I have been through second review, AND their complaints procedure and they are sticking to their guns. I don't believe I have option for ombudsman as I am a third party claimant - which is a position THEY put me in.I live in Aberdeen, and cars are SO much more expensive here. I genuinely can't find a replacement for anything NEAR what they are offering. 

Any suitable vehicle is well over 8k - some nearing 10-11k, and there are none within my local area.

I just don't have the energy any more to either go to court, or even to search for another car. My family see how it's affecting me and won't let me take it any further, nor will they let me contact the person who crashed into me.

How do I make sure that I am not thousands of pounds out of pocket by the time this is done and dusted, and with minimum stress/risk or relationship problems?

Why do I need to be in this position?

born_again

If you went via the 3rd party ins co, there is no official complaint process *(FOS) that you could take further. You could still have gone through your ins co, but would still be in same place.

Sadly you owned a 130K car with that value, the fact you just had a new engine installed makes no difference. (Did you infirm your insurer of this so they could adjust the value?)

QrizB

bluphoto said:

Any suitable vehicle is well over 8k - some nearing 10-11k, and there are none within my local area.

There are currently fifty-five 2014-2016 Ford Focus estates on Autotrader for less than £4000. Forty-four of those are diesels. Twelve of those have recorded fewer than 100k miles.

Smithcom

bluphoto said:

A couple of months ago, our beloved 2015 ford focus diesel estate had a head gasket failure. Our options were to spend 8k+ on a newer car (we have around 10k nest-egg but I'm worried about job security so prefer to keep that), or to get it fixed.
Garage recommended a replacement engine, so we spent 2500 and put in as low a mileage engine as I could find (41,000 miles) including ALL the ancillaries, from turbo, DMF, EGR system, Injectors etc to make sure the car would last us for many years to come. We basically replaced everything that could potentially cause us any major issues in the future. I agree there are other reliability areas on a car, but those are much more easily DIY repairable than a replacment engine. My car had done 130k miles, and I could have just put in another high mileage engine, but that wouldn't really have extended the cars life by much - so figured this was ain investment in our future.

Three weeks later, someone turned right across my path, directly in front of me, and wrote off both cars. Gutted that I had potentially lost my investment though no fault of my own. Her insurer contacted (captured) me so I went with that - thinking that as I don't have a policy/contract directly with them, I won't be restricted to "market valuation".

Of course thats exactly what they offered. I showed them the garage receipts etc and they said they had considered that, but that the car was only worth £3800. I agree, if I had chosen to sell it, thats likely what I would have got, but though Tort/Delict, I understand they have to restore me to pre-accident condition - which is with a 130,000 mile car, with a 41,000 mile engine - or, to press my point, any ileage of car with a 41,000 mile engine.
I have been through second review, AND their complaints procedure and they are sticking to their guns. I don't believe I have option for ombudsman as I am a third party claimant - which is a position THEY put me in.I live in Aberdeen, and cars are SO much more expensive here. I genuinely can't find a replacement for anything NEAR what they are offering. 

Any suitable vehicle is well over 8k - some nearing 10-11k, and there are none within my local area.

I just don't have the energy any more to either go to court, or even to search for another car. My family see how it's affecting me and won't let me take it any further, nor will they let me contact the person who crashed into me.

How do I make sure that I am not thousands of pounds out of pocket by the time this is done and dusted, and with minimum stress/risk or relationship problems?

Why do I need to be in this position?

I'm really sorry to hear about this issue.   I can see why this is upsetting.  It's a situation that has undone your good work (new engine) and has caused you financial hardship.

The legal redress (compensation) that you are entitled to with regards to the damaged property (car) will be be the market value of the vehicle.  The new engine may give you top-end price for the car (perhaps consistent with a car with low mileage), but it is never going to increase the actual value beyond that, or the financial liability of the 3rd party.

The 3rd party's liability is not to provide you with a suitable replacement vehicle.   It's simply to pay the market value, which is, in theory, the value you have lost.  Your car was worth more to you than it would be to someone else.

I'm really sorry that there is no easy solution, and I'm sorry that there is no easy recouping of your investment.

I hope that you can find a solution that you are happy with.

SC

MyRealNameToo

bluphoto said:
Her insurer contacted (captured) me so I went with that - thinking that as I don't have a policy/contract directly with them, I won't be restricted to "market valuation".

Of course thats exactly what they offered. I showed them the garage receipts etc and they said they had considered that, but that the car was only worth £3800. I agree, if I had chosen to sell it, thats likely what I would have got, but though Tort/Delict, I understand they have to restore me to pre-accident condition - which is with a 130,000 mile car, with a 41,000 mile engine - or, to press my point, any ileage of car with a 41,000 mile engine.

You are legally required to be indemnified, ie put back in the same financial position as you were immediately before the impact. That means either they have to repair your vehicle or pay you what you could have sold it for immediately before the incident, which ever is the lesser. 

You may feel thats not putting you into your pre-accident financial position but the law says that it does. Your view on dealing with the third party was probably the inverse of reality. Under the law of torts you are limited to indemnity whereas some insurances are written on a level above indemnity (think new for old on home insurance) and so payout more. 

The reality is the car is worth somewhere between a car with the old mileage and had the car only ever done 41k which will make valuation more difficult but ultimately you think their £3,800 offer is reasonable. 

bluphoto

The ONLY solution that I will be happy with is to be back in the same position that I was before the accident - not the same VALUE, but the same ACTUAL position - with a car that will last me for many years to come. 

I will not tolerate being a penny out of pocket and if the insurer won't pay for that then I believe that means that the policyholder is underinsured.

In what world is it morally right for me to be in this position? We simply cannot affort to put any more money into this.

bluphoto

QrizB said:

bluphoto said:

Any suitable vehicle is well over 8k - some nearing 10-11k, and there are none within my local area.

There are currently fifty-five 2014-2016 Ford Focus estates on Autotrader for less than £4000. Forty-four of those are diesels. Twelve of those have recorded fewer than 100k miles.

And how many of them are the post-2015 facelift model and match the condition (including the engine condition) of my car, and are accessible from Aberdeen?

bluphoto

MyRealNameToo said:

bluphoto said:
Her insurer contacted (captured) me so I went with that - thinking that as I don't have a policy/contract directly with them, I won't be restricted to "market valuation".

Of course thats exactly what they offered. I showed them the garage receipts etc and they said they had considered that, but that the car was only worth £3800. I agree, if I had chosen to sell it, thats likely what I would have got, but though Tort/Delict, I understand they have to restore me to pre-accident condition - which is with a 130,000 mile car, with a 41,000 mile engine - or, to press my point, any ileage of car with a 41,000 mile engine.

You are legally required to be indemnified, ie put back in the same financial position as you were immediately before the impact. That means either they have to repair your vehicle or pay you what you could have sold it for immediately before the incident, which ever is the lesser. 

You may feel thats not putting you into your pre-accident financial position but the law says that it does. Your view on dealing with the third party was probably the inverse of reality. Under the law of torts you are limited to indemnity whereas some insurances are written on a level above indemnity (think new for old on home insurance) and so payout more. 

The reality is the car is worth somewhere between a car with the old mileage and had the car only ever done 41k which will make valuation more difficult but ultimately you think their £3,800 offer is reasonable. 

"pay you what you could have sold it for" - I was not planning to sell it as the sale value would be (and is) far less than its practical value to me.

"Under the law of torts" - Scottish law uses Delict instead of Tort, and says I should be returned to the actual condition I was in before the accident. Scots law says nothing about financial position.

bluphoto

born_again said:

If you went via the 3rd party ins co, there is no official complaint process *(FOS) that you could take further. You could still have gone through your ins co, but would still be in same place.

Sadly you owned a 130K car with that value, the fact you just had a new engine installed makes no difference. (Did you infirm your insurer of this so they could adjust the value?)

My own insurer has nothing to do with this, and the fact that I just had a new engine installed makes all the difference in the world - to me. We did that to SAVE money, not to be even more out of pocket than we would otherwise have been.

QrizB

bluphoto said:

QrizB said:

bluphoto said:

Any suitable vehicle is well over 8k - some nearing 10-11k, and there are none within my local area.

There are currently fifty-five 2014-2016 Ford Focus estates on Autotrader for less than £4000. Forty-four of those are diesels. Twelve of those have recorded fewer than 100k miles.

And how many of them are the post-2015 facelift model and match the condition (including the engine condition) of my car

The "engine condition" of your crashed car is irrelevant. All you've done is maintenance, and cars are assumed to be in a good maintained condition when priced by insurers.

bluphoto said:

... and are accessible from Aberdeen?

Considering that I live in the south of England and drove to Aberdeen a couple of years ago, I'd suggest they are all "accessible from Aberdeen".

If you don't fancy driving, Aberdeen also has a rail service and an airport, and is served by National Express.

bluphoto

QrizB said:

bluphoto said:

QrizB said:

bluphoto said:

Any suitable vehicle is well over 8k - some nearing 10-11k, and there are none within my local area.

There are currently fifty-five 2014-2016 Ford Focus estates on Autotrader for less than £4000. Forty-four of those are diesels. Twelve of those have recorded fewer than 100k miles.

And how many of them are the post-2015 facelift model and match the condition (including the engine condition) of my car

The "engine condition" of your crashed car is irrelevant. All you've done is maintenance, and cars are assumed to be in a good maintained condition when priced by insurers.

bluphoto said:

... and are accessible from Aberdeen?

Considering that I live in the south of England and drove to Aberdeen a couple of years ago, I'd suggest they are all "accessible from Aberdeen".

If you don't fancy driving, Aberdeen also has a rail service and an airport, and is served by National Express.

"condition" includes the condition of all parts, not just the parts that suit the insurer on any given day.

I will not travel to buy a new car unless the insurer provides costs and accomodation, and provides a replacement carer for my wife. I am putting not one ounce of additional effort into this,. I just need a replacement car on my driveway with the same reliability as before without me lifting another finger. 

Let me check the "maintenance" manual, for engine replacement. I see that as an investment, and I purposely chose an expensive 41000 mile engine instead of a cheaper 130,000 mile replacement for a reason.

I simply don't have the time, and I'm not being difficult - it's just the truth. I can give it an maybe an hour or two each week. Accessible to me means within a 2hr drive, and not a mile more.

I have caregiving responsibilities and £3800 to spend.

If I'm expected to fly to Birmingham or Manchester to look at a car each time one comes up, then I trust the insurer will pay for that? To expect me to finance that myself is surely the definition of madness.