Custom/Bespoke and Drops Downs

LightFlare

I'm looking at buying a new PC and every component  is selected from a list of options. Essentially leading to perhaps millions of different combinations

I wouldn't be asking for any specific customisation - engraving etc

Is there a "limit" on the number of drop downs at which an item becomes bespoke/custom or is it a 100% binary thing ?

Thanks

Grumpy_chap

If you are selecting from drop down menus, then that is not bespoke / customisation.

If it is anything like the DELL website, although there are seemingly and endless number of combinations, the actual number of configurable options is actually quite low.  When you select the main options at the top (processor, RAM etc) it then reduces the number of options lower down the list.  Some of the "better" options lower down the list might remain visible but not actually configurable unless an option higher up the list is amended.

Alderbank

Whether it is custom/bespoke is decided by the specific facts on a case-by-case basis. To fall within the cooling off period exemption, a product needs to be so specific to a particular customer’s needs there is no market for it once the customer has cancelled the contract.

@Grumpy_chap's example of the DELL selector is a good one and is relevant to the market sector you are looking at, but not all drop-down matrices are as 'smart' as that.

Imagine a venetian blind maker with a height/width drop-down matrix which allows heights of 100mm - 3M and widths of 100mm - 3M.
You might order a blind 100mm wide and 3M high, and they are happy to manufacture that. However if you cancel they might reasonably argue that no-one else has ever ordered a blind of that shape and there is no market for it.

Case-by-case.

LightFlare

Thanks both

the particular site in question isn’t as smart as the DELL one in.

I was going through the configuration/ordering process and was just wondering at what stage multi level configuration becomes custom/bespoke.

Hopefully won’t have to find out

eskbanker

The government guidance associated with the legislation specifically refers to computers and the selection of component parts from a standard range:

14. An item made up following a consumer order does not necessarily make it a bespoke item which is exempt from cancellation rights. An item, for example a sofa or computer, can be assembled following an order but the component parts may be made up of parts offered from a standard range. So, for instance, a sofa where the consumer chooses a fabric and colour from a range on offer will not be bespoke for the purposes of these Regulations. However, if the consumer asks the trader to source a special finish and which is not in the range generally offered by the trader, that is likely to be a bespoke item. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a817b92ed915d74e33fe73a/bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf

A_Geordie

Whilst I would agree with what has been said already, I would urge caution before you take the plunge. It sounds like you are ordering from a computer specialist website that allows you to effectively create your own PC from the CPU, motherboard, graphics card, memory right through to the PC case itself and unlike DELL, you can customise each component to suit your personal taste. Websites like Scan and PC Specialist are examples who offer this whole PC customisation. 

The UK guidance on whether something is bespoke gives an example of a football shirt saying that if it has a footballer's name printed on it, it would not be bespoke, but if it had your own name then it would be considered bespoke. 

Not very helpful in your situation but I think as a general starting point, you would need to consider the extent of the customisation and how easy is it for the retailer to sell those customised goods. Given that you are customising every single component that makes up the PC, I would be leaning towards this being classified as bespoke goods. The retailer could argue that selling the PC would require someone who wants to purchase a PC with the exact same specification that you have chosen meaning the pool of potential customers may be drastically reduced. 

However, I will caveat that by saying if you are selecting a combination of popular components (thinking CPU, Mobo, GFX) that easily sell out, along with a non-funky looking case, then perhaps one might argue that it no longer becomes bespoke goods - though the onus would be on you to prove that. 

Anyway, another thing to bear in mind, is that once you've placed the order, you immediately lose your rights even if the components are yet to be sourced and/or being built. There is an EU case Möbel Kraft GmbH & Co. KG v ML that confirmed this position. 

eskbanker

A_Geordie said:

Anyway, another thing to bear in mind, is that once you've placed the order, you immediately lose your rights even if the components are yet to be sourced and/or being built. There is an EU case Möbel Kraft GmbH & Co. KG v ML that confirmed this position. 

Specifically which rights are lost at that stage?

LightFlare

A_Geordie said:

Whilst I would agree with what has been said already, I would urge caution before you take the plunge. It sounds like you are ordering from a computer specialist website that allows you to effectively create your own PC from the CPU, motherboard, graphics card, memory right through to the PC case itself and unlike DELL, you can customise each component to suit your personal taste. Websites like Scan and PC Specialist are examples who offer this whole PC customisation. 

The UK guidance on whether something is bespoke gives an example of a football shirt saying that if it has a footballer's name printed on it, it would not be bespoke, but if it had your own name then it would be considered bespoke. 

Not very helpful in your situation but I think as a general starting point, you would need to consider the extent of the customisation and how easy is it for the retailer to sell those customised goods. Given that you are customising every single component that makes up the PC, I would be leaning towards this being classified as bespoke goods. The retailer could argue that selling the PC would require someone who wants to purchase a PC with the exact same specification that you have chosen meaning the pool of potential customers may be drastically reduced. 

However, I will caveat that by saying if you are selecting a combination of popular components (thinking CPU, Mobo, GFX) that easily sell out, along with a non-funky looking case, then perhaps one might argue that it no longer becomes bespoke goods - though the onus would be on you to prove that. 

Anyway, another thing to bear in mind, is that once you've placed the order, you immediately lose your rights even if the components are yet to be sourced and/or being built. There is an EU case Möbel Kraft GmbH & Co. KG v ML that confirmed this position. 

very enlightening response - thanks.

The site I am using is set up in exactly this way - I have used them before and have done a lot of research/background to ensure my components are compatible.

It was just one of those moments whilst I was doing the order and having read posts on here around custom/bespoke that I found myself wondering how this would be perceived

From a simplistic view - even if I have selected the parts and they are connected to each other, it doesnt prevent them from being disassembled and reused and thus not classed as true custom. Only exception I can think of is maybe the CPU which will have thermal paste applied before attaching to the Mobo

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

eskbanker said:

A_Geordie said:

Anyway, another thing to bear in mind, is that once you've placed the order, you immediately lose your rights even if the components are yet to be sourced and/or being built. There is an EU case Möbel Kraft GmbH & Co. KG v ML that confirmed this position. 

Specifically which rights are lost at that stage?

I think the point made there is before acceptance you may withdraw your offer but once accepted and a contract formed the limit of application is inherent in the contract, i.e there is no right to cancel simply because they haven’t started to make something yet.

(Apologies in advance if I’m getting the wrong end of the stick there).

To add to the topic in general, the EU guidance talks of creating a unique item, in most cases a dropdown menu type of set up isn’t unique, whether it could be argued complex options is I don’t think it’s yet been decided through any case law. 

Alderbank

From a simplistic view - even if I have selected the parts and they are connected to each other, it doesnt prevent them from being disassembled and reused and thus not classed as true custom. Only exception I can think of is maybe the CPU which will have thermal paste applied before attaching to the Mobo

Again it depends on the facts but I don't think that is a strong argument.

The legislation and certainly the guidance considers the assembled item to be a single product and talks about whether that finished product, and not just its disassembled components, would be likely to sell to another consumer.

That seems reasonable in a commercial world where the cost of paid employees sourcing, assembling and testing the product is not trivial.

Say a craft trader on Etsy knits a jumper for you which has a knitted intarsia picture of your dog. Is it reasonable to tell them to unravel the different coloured wools and just wind them back on the cones?

There are companies who build giant models from Meccano or Lego bricks, possibly spending many hours to do so. Is it fair to say, 'I've changed my mind. Take it all apart'?

Okell

eskbanker said:

A_Geordie said:

Anyway, another thing to bear in mind, is that once you've placed the order, you immediately lose your rights even if the components are yet to be sourced and/or being built. There is an EU case Möbel Kraft GmbH & Co. KG v ML that confirmed this position. 

Specifically which rights are lost at that stage?

I think waht A_Geordie means is that if you are entering into a contract for personalised goods or goods made to your own manufacture, then - with immediate effect from the point you've placed the order - you can't cancel the contract. So even if you try to cancel before the trader has started either to personalise the goods or to manufacture them, it's still too late to cancel.

Or at least that's what I think that case means:  see para 30 EUR-Lex - 62019CJ0529 - EN - EUR-Lex

[Edit:  and I think that's what I'd always thought the law was anyway...]

TBH I'm not sure it adds to the question of whether a computer built from various selections from trader populated multiple drop-down menus is or is not built to a customers own specifications.