Charged for parking whilst charging an EV - signage implies charging is not considered parking

Car1980

That's a council sign.

The small sign at your site is mimicking the design (font is wrong, should have a yellow background for no parking), but it's just a general request with no legal powers behind it. 

If it's private land there must be a sign with a contract on it to enable a private company to invoice people.

John707

Car1980 said:

but it's just a general request with no legal powers behind it. 

If it's private land there must be a sign with a contract on it to enable a private company to invoice people.

There likely is a notice elsewhere at the location, but I have no record of that. I don't think there was anything particularly prominent. I suppose it hinges on whether the EV charging bays are considered to be inside, or outside of that.  In good faith I thought that the sign on the EV charge bays, combined with no mentioned of parking charges on the instructions or other notices at the EV charge bay meant that the parking notice did not apply.  The invoice from the EV charge provider (the site owner also owns the EV charge points) makes a distinction between "charging time" and "parking time" (and parking time excludes the charging time).

Car1980

At the end of the day, not difficult to put up a sign right next to the chargers.

But as always, the clearer the signage the less tickets you get to issue and the less money you make.

Half_way

Another point is where an EV company leases a space/area in a car park, so effectively when a vehicle enters an EV charge area it is no longer in the car park - alhtough that can depend upon the site 

Coupon-mad

Mark_d said:

I think most people would consider your car parked when it was left unattended.  From the PCN it suggests you could have parked for 120 minutes.  Clearly this is not enough time for a full charge of your car.  Maybe find a different charger next time you want to do a full charge.

Based on what we can see so far there is no grounds for appeal.  

Please don't give constant PPC-biased advice and make out this is what 'we' all think/see. Nope. Quite the opposite.

We (regulars) do not agree with your post. There isn't even a t&cs sign in the EV bay or alongside it. This person will never pay.

Ralph-y said:

The first person who advised you has been accused of working for a PPC , if the accusers are right then base your decision as to following his / her advice as you think fit ...

Yes I agree with you Ralph-y 

Repeated posts from the above poster, constantly driver-blaming, telling people to pay scam PCNs and that they have no case suggests that this poster works within/connected to this industry.

Coupon-mad

John707 said:

Car1980 said:

but it's just a general request with no legal powers behind it. 

If it's private land there must be a sign with a contract on it to enable a private company to invoice people.

There likely is a notice elsewhere at the location, but I have no record of that. I don't think there was anything particularly prominent. I suppose it hinges on whether the EV charging bays are considered to be inside, or outside of that.  In good faith I thought that the sign on the EV charge bays, combined with no mentioned of parking charges on the instructions or other notices at the EV charge bay meant that the parking notice did not apply.  The invoice from the EV charge provider (the site owner also owns the EV charge points) makes a distinction between "charging time" and "parking time" (and parking time excludes the charging time).

This will be easy enough to win at POPLA by gathering evidence of no t&cs sign in that bay area. No contract.

Certainly no paying this.

John707

Thanks for everyone's input on this. We first went to the EV charging provider (who are a subsidiary of the site owner) with a description of the situation, and photos of their signage along with other much clearer examples at other EV charging sites elsewhere.

They agreed to cancel the PCNs straight away (they had issued two for successive charging sessions, both on the same day), and I've now had confirmation from them that both have been cancelled.

prowla

John707 said:

Now there's a conundrum: how are you supposed to charge your vehicle without parking it?

kryten3000

Mark_d said:

I think most people would consider your car parked when it was left unattended.  From the PCN it suggests you could have parked for 120 minutes.  Clearly this is not enough time for a full charge of your car.  Maybe find a different charger next time you want to do a full charge.

Based on what we can see so far there is no grounds for appeal.  Traveling back to take a closer look around the car park might have been a reasonable option if it wasn't quite so far away.

Charging isn't parking, it's refuelling.  Is a ICE car parked when it is being filled with petrol/diesel?  No.

Coupon-mad

Mark_d said:

I think most people would consider your car parked when it was left unattended.  From the PCN it suggests you could have parked for 120 minutes.  Clearly this is not enough time for a full charge of your car.  Maybe find a different charger next time you want to do a full charge.

Based on what we can see so far there is no grounds for appeal.  Traveling back to take a closer look around the car park might have been a reasonable option if it wasn't quite so far away.

...and of course we now have the outcome: the PCNs were cancelled.

Other opinions are welcome - having the parking industry post here keeps us on our toes - but please be open about which side of the fence you are on and please don't post as 'we' on this board. That misleads newbies and there are never 'no grounds for appeal'.

You've posted here enough to know every bit as well as 'we' forum regulars do, that there are almost invariably grounds to appeal private PCNs.