Electric only flat - realistic cost estimates

MariaMaria101

Hi all, 
I'm potentially moving into a flat that is all electric, and trying to get an accurate idea of what bills might look like. I'm moving as a result of separation, so from a 4 bed detached house, to a 2 bed flat and am concerned from what I've read so far that my energy bills may end up being higher! (Have been paying £160/month with Octopus for Gas and Electric, obviously use more than that over winter, but it's covered easily by what's accrued in summer). 

The flat is 2 bedroom, 3rd floor(top), old stone building. The loft is insulated and windows triple glazed. The owner fitted electric radiators a few years ago, that are apparently 'good ones' (whatever that means), they're not storage heaters, and are programmable. Immersion water heater which the shower uses. I can't get an accurate idea on cost, as the owner mainly uses the wood burner she fitted. I won't be able to use that as my daughter has a bad chest so I'll be reliant on the electric radiators. 

I work from home, but when I'm on my own I'm fine with heating myself rather than the flat (currently don't usually have the heating on during the day, other than the most freezing days), but with a 4 yr old child will need the place to be comfortable when she's there, including overnight and will need a decent supply of hot water. 

I'm finding the internet being a bit scaremongering about cost, with threads of people saying that they're spending well over £300/month and still barely having enough hot water to shower. Conversely, when I tried getting a quote from Octopus, even saying it would be 'high usage', it came out as £100/month, which seems to low (I don't think it's accounting for the fact the heating is electric, even though it knew the property was electric only). Ideally I don't really want to be spending more than approx £200/month, as if I will be, I may as well rent somewhere bigger/more expensive that has gas and electric, as will cost the same! 

Any advice/experience would be much appreciated. 

born_again

MariaMaria101 said:

Hi all, 
I'm potentially moving into a flat that is all electric, and trying to get an accurate idea of what bills might look like. I'm moving as a result of separation, so from a 4 bed detached house, to a 2 bed flat and am concerned from what I've read so far that my energy bills may end up being higher! (Have been paying £160/month with Octopus for Gas and Electric, obviously use more than that over winter, but it's covered easily by what's accrued in summer). 

The flat is 2 bedroom, 3rd floor(top), old stone building. The loft is insulated and windows triple glazed. The owner fitted electric radiators a few years ago, that are apparently 'good ones' (whatever that means), they're not storage heaters, and are programmable. Immersion water heater which the shower uses. I can't get an accurate idea on cost, as the owner mainly uses the wood burner she fitted. I won't be able to use that as my daughter has a bad chest so I'll be reliant on the electric radiators. 

I work from home, but when I'm on my own I'm fine with heating myself rather than the flat (currently don't usually have the heating on during the day, other than the most freezing days), but with a 4 yr old child will need the place to be comfortable when she's there, including overnight and will need a decent supply of hot water. 

I'm finding the internet being a bit scaremongering about cost, with threads of people saying that they're spending well over £300/month and still barely having enough hot water to shower. Conversely, when I tried getting a quote from Octopus, even saying it would be 'high usage', it came out as £100/month, which seems to low (I don't think it's accounting for the fact the heating is electric, even though it knew the property was electric only). Ideally I don't really want to be spending more than approx £200/month, as if I will be, I may as well rent somewhere bigger/more expensive that has gas and electric, as will cost the same! 

Any advice/experience would be much appreciated. 

It means they are as expensive to run as poor ones.
Most expensive form of heating. 

Rodders53

Ask the current owner for sight of the utilities bills for the last few years...  including the wood burnt.

But Gas is circa 8 p/kWh (allowing for boiler inefficiency) Electric nearly 4x that sum 31p...  Wood burner (kiln dried logs) is somewhere in the 11-12p/kWh.  Energy Cost Comparison — Nottingham Energy Partnership. 
Actual prices for your location will be different, but the principle remains the same.

You'll need the same kWh to heat the dwelling whatever energy source is used.  So you are correct to be concerned with using all electric with no storage heaters and low rates (E7 and suchlike).

MariaMaria101

Thanks. I'll be renting from the owner. She has told me that 2 years ago, when she didn't have the wood burner, her entire annual cost was £2k, but that she 'never programmed the heaters properly'. She also said she currently leaves the immersion heater on all the time, so I'm not sure that her costs are going to be very helpful. 

I know it's going to be far more expensive than if it were gas, I just don't like not have any clear idea on how MUCH more expensive. Rented property goes like hot cakes where I live, there is so little of it available and much of it is not in good condition. Everything else in this flat works for me and my daughter and we have been given first refusal, so I'm just finding it a difficult judgement call as to if it being electricity only is enough of a problem to turn it down. 

Scot_39

Many people compare gas to conventional e7 or single rate electric.

It can make it frightening.  It compare c6.3p with c26p single rate especially.

But on flip side - no gas standing charges (ave about to rise to c£125 pa) or boiler servicing / maintenance plans etc (another £100-£400pa)

Do you know if flat has a working communicating smart meter yet ?

If you can access and can avoid heavy use in their peak rate - with conventional panels - then something like TOU tariffs that can offer lower than e7 off peak or day rates cheaper than SR  - might suit.  But normally come with a peak period say 4-7pm with high rates 

Cosy Octopus for instance gives 8 hrs cheap rate - 3 e7 rate comparible off peak periods but crucially when heaters arent storage based - spread over the day - early morning before most wake, mid afternoon and late evening night before your bedtime - but you'd have to try and avoid heavy use 4-7pm when it charges 51% above single rate.

Maybe trickier with a 4 yr old - but if hw from tank say used for a nightly bath - possible.

But sounds like the flat well insulated.  So could retain heat in gaps.

And if flat has a sunny exposure it might get lots of solar gain even in winter.

COSY notionally meant for ashp / boilers in the blurb - but you can but ask. 

Other suppliers large and small do other tou too.  Different rates at different times - most trading off a high early evening peak rste to give cheaper rates for rest of day.

poppasmurf_bewdley

I've lived in an all electric cottage for 8 years now, and it's nothing to be frightened of.  The first thing you should do is get Economy 7.  I've just gone to Utility Warehouse and my juice costs be 5p a unit overnight.  I have storage heaters in all rooms, and also timers on the washing machine, dishwasher and immersion heater so all cost 5p per unit to run.  I'm also fortunate that I have 2 solar generators that I bring home from my caravan from September until April, and use these during the day to run my 55 inch TV and the airfryer - both charged up overnight at 5p a unit.  
The daytime unit price is a hefty 38p a unit but all my lights are now LED and I haven't used the cooker since buying the airfryer.  
I'm budgeting £4 a day over winter for everything.  

Scot_39

The op sounda like has live panel / electric radiator heaters in her target flat, not storage heaters.

She'd be paying iirc c35-40p on that UW deal at peak rates, for any day time use to balance tge 5p.

Great for hw tank maybe, not so great for heating her kids room in evening, say 12 hrs after e7 cheap rate gone. 

I wouldn't think e7 would suit her situation going into winter months especially.

MyRealNameToo

poppasmurf_bewdley said:

I've lived in an all electric cottage for 8 years now, and it's nothing to be frightened of.  The first thing you should do is get Economy 7.  I've just gone to Utility Warehouse and my juice costs be 5p a unit overnight.  I have storage heaters in all rooms, and also timers on the washing machine, dishwasher and immersion heater so all cost 5p per unit to run.  I'm also fortunate that I have 2 solar generators that I bring home from my caravan from September until April, and use these during the day to run my 55 inch TV and the airfryer - both charged up overnight at 5p a unit.  
The daytime unit price is a hefty 38p a unit but all my lights are now LED and I haven't used the cooker since buying the airfryer.  
I'm budgeting £4 a day over winter for everything.  

They dont have storage heaters so why would they get economy 7 when their heaters are going to be on during the evening when E7 price is much higher?


Our last flat was all electric in a late 80s building but we were middle floor so the benefit of insulation and heat from above/below. Our bills 7 years ago were about £150/month but you need to factor in electricity was moderately cheaper then plus we had the benefit of storage heating so was on a E7 setup. However the Mrs likes to be warm and so live top up was used at times plus whilst we had good double glazing it was still picture window the whole length of the lounge/diner 

bucksboomer

MariaMaria101 said:

Hi all, 
I'm potentially moving into a flat that is all electric, and trying to get an accurate idea of what bills might look like. I'm moving as a result of separation, so from a 4 bed detached house, to a 2 bed flat and am concerned from what I've read so far that my energy bills may end up being higher! (Have been paying £160/month with Octopus for Gas and Electric, obviously use more than that over winter, but it's covered easily by what's accrued in summer). 

The flat is 2 bedroom, 3rd floor(top), old stone building. The loft is insulated and windows triple glazed. The owner fitted electric radiators a few years ago, that are apparently 'good ones' (whatever that means), they're not storage heaters, and are programmable. Immersion water heater which the shower uses. I can't get an accurate idea on cost, as the owner mainly uses the wood burner she fitted. I won't be able to use that as my daughter has a bad chest so I'll be reliant on the electric radiators. 

I work from home, but when I'm on my own I'm fine with heating myself rather than the flat (currently don't usually have the heating on during the day, other than the most freezing days), but with a 4 yr old child will need the place to be comfortable when she's there, including overnight and will need a decent supply of hot water. 

I'm finding the internet being a bit scaremongering about cost, with threads of people saying that they're spending well over £300/month and still barely having enough hot water to shower. Conversely, when I tried getting a quote from Octopus, even saying it would be 'high usage', it came out as £100/month, which seems to low (I don't think it's accounting for the fact the heating is electric, even though it knew the property was electric only). Ideally I don't really want to be spending more than approx £200/month, as if I will be, I may as well rent somewhere bigger/more expensive that has gas and electric, as will cost the same! 

Any advice/experience would be much appreciated. 

You said potentially, so I am hoping you have a chance to pull out.

The simple fact is that without central heating you are going to have seriously expensive energy.

Storage heaters are better than those alleged "good ones" you do not need to rely on scaremongering, just do the math, ask the kWh of each heater, ask for energy reads for the last 12 months.

If you are on the 3rd floor you are going to be colder than say the 2nd of 3 floors. I am on the first floor with gas central heating.  I benefit from the insulation provided by flat below, behind and above.  I used to pay £20 per month for each of Gas and Electric, now I pay £75 a month roughly.  I do not have the heating on much, only in the very coldest weather and I take advice from this site for economising.

I have lived in two flats with electric only, I hated the cookers, in one I was into roof space and it was damn cold, the bathroom was worse than an outhouse with it Velux windows and no amount of heating made it warm.  I ended up adding two extra storage heaters which made living room and 2nd bedroom tolerable.  In the other flat I had a £2400 bill one quarter because of a fault with the eco7 energy, I spent nearly two years fighting the energy company over the way they wanted to calculate it.  Numerous attempts to make an ombudsman complaint which they shut down twice by saying they would reconsider their position.

Heating a tank of water is super tedious and costly, in one flat it added hot water on immersion to the cold water in the tank, so took 3 hours to get hot water.

Electric Showers are OK until they are not, they can be subject to limescale and Landlords always seem to want to blame the Tenant.  They then take months to get it resolved, oh and in one of the "electric" flats they had no window and a bad extractor fan.  LL told me to put the heater on to avoid mould.

Honestly, I would run a mile, to not have these issues and a lifetime tenancy I am just so glad not to have electric anything.

If there was electric central heating that might not be so bad, but the fact that these type of heaters have been put in tells you all you need to know about the the Landlord.

WiserMiser

Look for somewhere else.  Electric heating is a No-No unless you have a heatpump (even then it's iffy, especially if it's yours rather than the landlord's) or High Heat Retention Night Storage Heaters such as Dimplex Quantums on Economy 7.  Room heating and hot water will both be very expensive, and if the water runs cold it'll take some time to warm up.

Where would you store the logs?  It won't be much fun repeatedly bringing them upstairs, especially with a 4-year old in tow.

WiserMiser

poppasmurf_bewdley said:

I've lived in an all electric cottage for 8 years now, and it's nothing to be frightened of.  The first thing you should do is get Economy 7.  I've just gone to Utility Warehouse and my juice costs be 5p a unit overnight.  I have storage heaters in all rooms, and also timers on the washing machine, dishwasher and immersion heater so all cost 5p per unit to run.  I'm also fortunate that I have 2 solar generators that I bring home from my caravan from September until April, and use these during the day to run my 55 inch TV and the airfryer - both charged up overnight at 5p a unit.  
The daytime unit price is a hefty 38p a unit but all my lights are now LED and I haven't used the cooker since buying the airfryer.  
I'm budgeting £4 a day over winter for everything.  

Very bad advice because your situation is totally different to that of the OP.  E7 would make things even worse.