Looking for advice on Wills etc

Keep_pedalling

DoneWorking said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:
If either my wife or I remarried after the death of the other we would ensure the will was amended at the same time as the marriage to ensure the children were not excluded from their inheritance 

Yes lots of people say that but they don’t all don’t end up doing so. I really can’t see why you are so reluctant to take sensible precautions to avoid a potencial disinheritance. 

Indeed. It's unlikely to be one's first thought after the death of a spouse: "Oh, I must make an appointment to update my will this week." And even if the thought is there, it may take time to organise, and more pressing matters may scupper the process. You can't even be sure that, as the survivor, you will still have 'capacity' to make a will - and it's not uncommon for early signs of dementia to worsen if you're 'left behind'. 

Why would the surviving spouse need to update their will immediately after the death of their spouse
Their will has left their estate to their children which is what they want.
Should their circumstances change then surely they could make amendments then.
If they lose capacity to act their LPOA would kick in 

There would be no need to make a change under those circumstances, but there are a couple of risks with someone who developed dementia. Some forms can see the person take on personality changes which could lead them to making decisions they otherwise would not have done and one of those could be to make a new will or hooking up with someone out to exploit them. This could be well before they loose their capacity to manage their own affairs so  LPA is not going to help in this situation.

The other risk is that they require long term care which eats up not only all their assets but the assets you left them as well. Although I think it more important that my spouse gets the best care possible than to maximise our children’s inheritance lots of people don’t see it that way.

DoneWorking

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:
If either my wife or I remarried after the death of the other we would ensure the will was amended at the same time as the marriage to ensure the children were not excluded from their inheritance 

Yes lots of people say that but they don’t all don’t end up doing so. I really can’t see why you are so reluctant to take sensible precautions to avoid a potencial disinheritance. 

Indeed. It's unlikely to be one's first thought after the death of a spouse: "Oh, I must make an appointment to update my will this week." And even if the thought is there, it may take time to organise, and more pressing matters may scupper the process. You can't even be sure that, as the survivor, you will still have 'capacity' to make a will - and it's not uncommon for early signs of dementia to worsen if you're 'left behind'. 

Why would the surviving spouse need to update their will immediately after the death of their spouse
Their will has left their estate to their children which is what they want.
Should their circumstances change then surely they could make amendments then.
If they lose capacity to act their LPOA would kick in 

There would be no need to make a change under those circumstances, but there are a couple of risks with someone who developed dementia. Some forms can see the person take on personality changes which could lead them to making decisions they otherwise would not have done and one of those could be to make a new will or hooking up with someone out to exploit them. This could be well before they loose their capacity to manage their own affairs so  LPA is not going to help in this situation.

The other risk is that they require long term care which eats up not only all their assets but the assets you left them as well. Although I think it more important that my spouse gets the best care possible than to maximise our children’s inheritance lots of people don’t see it that way.

So if you protect the assets with a Trust to prevent care costs eating up their inheritance what happens to their care provision 
Are they kicked out 

poseidon1

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:
If either my wife or I remarried after the death of the other we would ensure the will was amended at the same time as the marriage to ensure the children were not excluded from their inheritance 

Yes lots of people say that but they don’t all don’t end up doing so. I really can’t see why you are so reluctant to take sensible precautions to avoid a potencial disinheritance. 

Indeed. It's unlikely to be one's first thought after the death of a spouse: "Oh, I must make an appointment to update my will this week." And even if the thought is there, it may take time to organise, and more pressing matters may scupper the process. You can't even be sure that, as the survivor, you will still have 'capacity' to make a will - and it's not uncommon for early signs of dementia to worsen if you're 'left behind'. 

Why would the surviving spouse need to update their will immediately after the death of their spouse
Their will has left their estate to their children which is what they want.
Should their circumstances change then surely they could make amendments then.
If they lose capacity to act their LPOA would kick in 

There would be no need to make a change under those circumstances, but there are a couple of risks with someone who developed dementia. Some forms can see the person take on personality changes which could lead them to making decisions they otherwise would not have done and one of those could be to make a new will or hooking up with someone out to exploit them. This could be well before they loose their capacity to manage their own affairs so  LPA is not going to help in this situation.

The other risk is that they require long term care which eats up not only all their assets but the assets you left them as well. Although I think it more important that my spouse gets the best care possible than to maximise our children’s inheritance lots of people don’t see it that way.

Useful to note that the Law Commision are considering fairly seismic changes to the rather ancient law of wills as laid down in in the 1837 Wills Act ( now188 years old!) .

Some of the modernising changes  include abolition of the requirement that marriage nullifies an existing will (to try and address predatory marriages), and introducing the ability to legally challenge a will on the grounds  of undue influence - see article below

https://www.hughjames.com/blog/wills-law-law-commissions-may-2025-report/

Some laudable proposed revisions, but one or two others perhaps less so. However we will not know until the middle of next year, whether the government will embrace the report sufficiently to then push though legislative changes.

However the wheels of change often move slowly in this area. the Law commission started the review in 2016 with two public consultations in 2017 and 2023 culminating in the final report this year.

Be interesting to see if a Labour government perceives the benefits of the modernising changes in the same light as the previous government. One would like to believe that in this fundamental area, there was cross party support.

poppystar

DoneWorking said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:
If either my wife or I remarried after the death of the other we would ensure the will was amended at the same time as the marriage to ensure the children were not excluded from their inheritance 

Yes lots of people say that but they don’t all don’t end up doing so. I really can’t see why you are so reluctant to take sensible precautions to avoid a potencial disinheritance. 

Indeed. It's unlikely to be one's first thought after the death of a spouse: "Oh, I must make an appointment to update my will this week." And even if the thought is there, it may take time to organise, and more pressing matters may scupper the process. You can't even be sure that, as the survivor, you will still have 'capacity' to make a will - and it's not uncommon for early signs of dementia to worsen if you're 'left behind'. 

Why would the surviving spouse need to update their will immediately after the death of their spouse
Their will has left their estate to their children which is what they want.
Should their circumstances change then surely they could make amendments then.
If they lose capacity to act their LPOA would kick in 

There would be no need to make a change under those circumstances, but there are a couple of risks with someone who developed dementia. Some forms can see the person take on personality changes which could lead them to making decisions they otherwise would not have done and one of those could be to make a new will or hooking up with someone out to exploit them. This could be well before they loose their capacity to manage their own affairs so  LPA is not going to help in this situation.

The other risk is that they require long term care which eats up not only all their assets but the assets you left them as well. Although I think it more important that my spouse gets the best care possible than to maximise our children’s inheritance lots of people don’t see it that way.

So if you protect the assets with a Trust to prevent care costs eating up their inheritance what happens to their care provision 
Are they kicked out 

No, ongoing care would be state supported … or, of course, your children could choose to contribute to get a better level of care. 

The reality is though that not everyone goes in to care or needs a high level of care at home. Those going in to care often don’t live there for a long time. Looking around my peer group, neighbours and family, only one parent has gone into care in old age. 

The question I guess is whether you want to protect some inheritance for your children or are happy that, should you or your partner go into care, the children might get nothing.

Personally I would choose the IPDI option. Yes, scenarios like remarriage or incapacity of surviving spouse are unlikely as you say but I wouldn’t want to take that chance. I have seen some older people make very strange or unwise decisions that they would never have done earlier in their lives. Sadly even healthy people (even young ones!) can be led astray if they meet the wrong people and get coerced. They can also take umbrage with people they once loved. 

The downside of the IPDI is for the children that they have no access to their inheritance until the surviving spouse dies or remarries. For the surviving spouse nothing changes - they still have their home, are still responsible for maintaining it, they will make all decisions about it and they can still move or downsize should they wish and they have half the value of the property available in the event of care costs. 

Keep_pedalling

DoneWorking said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Keep_pedalling said:

DoneWorking said:
If either my wife or I remarried after the death of the other we would ensure the will was amended at the same time as the marriage to ensure the children were not excluded from their inheritance 

Yes lots of people say that but they don’t all don’t end up doing so. I really can’t see why you are so reluctant to take sensible precautions to avoid a potencial disinheritance. 

Indeed. It's unlikely to be one's first thought after the death of a spouse: "Oh, I must make an appointment to update my will this week." And even if the thought is there, it may take time to organise, and more pressing matters may scupper the process. You can't even be sure that, as the survivor, you will still have 'capacity' to make a will - and it's not uncommon for early signs of dementia to worsen if you're 'left behind'. 

Why would the surviving spouse need to update their will immediately after the death of their spouse
Their will has left their estate to their children which is what they want.
Should their circumstances change then surely they could make amendments then.
If they lose capacity to act their LPOA would kick in 

There would be no need to make a change under those circumstances, but there are a couple of risks with someone who developed dementia. Some forms can see the person take on personality changes which could lead them to making decisions they otherwise would not have done and one of those could be to make a new will or hooking up with someone out to exploit them. This could be well before they loose their capacity to manage their own affairs so  LPA is not going to help in this situation.

The other risk is that they require long term care which eats up not only all their assets but the assets you left them as well. Although I think it more important that my spouse gets the best care possible than to maximise our children’s inheritance lots of people don’t see it that way.

So if you protect the assets with a Trust to prevent care costs eating up their inheritance what happens to their care provision 
Are they kicked out 

That could happen if a private expensive home was chosen and the money ran out. Not all homes except LA funded residence and LAs have a limit on how much they will pay, so a move of home could necessary. 

We have prioritised care over inheritance so our wills do not include trusts, but we are a long married couple not a blended family where the priorities might be different. We also still sit in IHT territory because we have kept enough savings back to fund live in carers as an alternative to residential care. 

DoneWorking

Quote 

The downside of the IPDI is for the children that they have no access to their inheritance until the surviving spouse dies or remarries.

Unquote

Our children will not inherit anything until both spouses die 

DoneWorking

Is a Trust set up separately from a Will

Is the IPDI different than a trust 
Or part of a Trust 



Apologies for my ignorance but it's a lot to take in 

poseidon1

DoneWorking said:

Is a Trust set up separately from a Will

Is the IPDI different than a trust 
Or part of a Trust 



Apologies for my ignorance but it's a lot to take in 

Yorkie1 succinctly set out everything you need to know about IPDI trusts in his post on 11 September.

I think at this point the many varied voices trying to spoon feed you on the difference aspects you have raised has now become somewhat counterproductive?

Perhaps it's time for you to sit down with a solicitor who can focus specifically on your concerns and draft wills that address those concerns.

RAS

I'd agree, not least as the way in which the IPDI trust is written affects whether and how the survivor can access the income from the trust during their lifetime. 

Getting that right could make a difference.

poppystar

DoneWorking said:

Quote 

The downside of the IPDI is for the children that they have no access to their inheritance until the surviving spouse dies or remarries.

Unquote

Our children will not inherit anything until both spouses die 

Yes but in ‘quote’ they will definitely get something. In ‘unquote’ they may never get anything.