Rejection of vehicle

PTP123

Morning, new to the forum so hello,

Just after a bit of help because I'm getting conflicting advice.

I purchased a used 2020 102k mile Volkswagen Van in early April from a dealer on finance. 

No issues until mid June when a DPF light came on the dash. 

Took it back to the dealer who removed the DPF and had it cleaned (I have the invoice for the work carried out. They paid)

No problems with the van for about a month when the light came back on. At this point I didn't contact the dealer because I thought this could be a long term issue that can't be fixed so went straight to the finance company. They have since sent out an engineer who confirms there is an issue with the DPF. The dealer was notified of my wish to reject in early September.

Now to the bit I'm confused about.

1. I don't cover many miles and in the 5 months of ownership have don less than 2000. All these trips were short. Could this be used against me?

2. Although I purchased and financed the van in my own name I have been using it for my business. The dealer doesn't know this but if they did could it cause an issue?

3. I have been pushing the finance company for a full refund but have read that the dealer can deduct for the 5 months use/damage/mileage. Is this true and what deduction should i expect?

4. I have rejected the vehicle in writing to the finance company and have told them I want it collected. Am I responsible for returning the van or is the dealer responsible for collection?

5. I am still using the van as I have no other means of transport. The mileage has gone up slightly since the engineer came out. Will this impact my rejection?

Thank you in advance

MyRealNameToo

Is the light on constantly or flashing? Doesnt sound like you have been following the recommendation of running the engine hot to regenerate it (ie 30+ minutes on a dual carriage way or motorway)? 

1. Potentially, users can cause the DPF to clog

2. More so for the finance company given you are looking at S75 of the CCA and CCA doesnt apply to someone acting on behalf of their business, trade or profession

3. Yes, motor vehicles are different to other goods, the merchant and therefore the finance company can deduct for "use" from day one, for other goods its only after 6 months that they can. Most start with the suggestion of 45p/mile per the government allowance for mileage

4. Ultimately, if they accept liability, the finance company would be responsible for the cost of its return. Parties can be reasonable in agreeing the exact mechanism of return

5. Yes, you can't use something you've rejected

Wonka_2

PTP123 said:

Morning, new to the forum so hello,

Just after a bit of help because I'm getting conflicting advice.

I purchased a used 2020 102k mile Volkswagen Van in early April from a dealer on finance. 

No issues until mid June when a DPF light came on the dash. 

Took it back to the dealer who removed the DPF and had it cleaned (I have the invoice for the work carried out. They paid)

No problems with the van for about a month when the light came back on. At this point I didn't contact the dealer because I thought this could be a long term issue that can't be fixed so went straight to the finance company. They have since sent out an engineer who confirms there is an issue with the DPF. The dealer was notified of my wish to reject in early September.

Now to the bit I'm confused about.

1. I don't cover many miles and in the 5 months of ownership have don less than 2000. All these trips were short. Could this be used against me?

Yes - no wonder the DPF is ‘broken’

2. Although I purchased and financed the van in my own name I have been using it for my business. The dealer doesn't know this but if they did could it cause an issue?

Depends whether you’re claiming as you - and whether you’ve put the van through business accounts 

3. I have been pushing the finance company for a full refund but have read that the dealer can deduct for the 5 months use/damage/mileage. Is this true and what deduction should i expect?

Depends on 1) and whether they accept the rejection

4. I have rejected the vehicle in writing to the finance company and have told them I want it collected. Am I responsible for returning the van or is the dealer responsible for collection?

Seems it’s down to individual agreements - you certainly need to ensure it’s available for collection

5. I am still using the van as I have no other means of transport. The mileage has gone up slightly since the engineer came out. Will this impact my rejection?

In which case you’ve not rejected it - I’m sure others will add more detail but you shouldn’t be using it

Thank you in advance

As above - has anyone actually acknowledged/accepted your rejection ?

PTP123

The dealer have informed the finance company they will not be accepting rejection and I am in the belief that they will fight it all the way.

The have hinted to me that it's not my problem. They will refund me regardless and chase the dealer for a refund. Not sure how that would work.

The mileage on the van is higher now than when I officially rejected it.

I have no contact with the dealer. Looking back if I'd approached them after the fault happened again they probably would have been more helpful but because I involved the finance company I think I got their back up. 

PTP123

PTP123 said:

The dealer have informed the finance company they will not be accepting rejection and I am in the belief that they will fight it all the way.

The *FINANCE COMPANY *have hinted to me that it's not my problem. They will refund me regardless and chase the dealer for a refund. Not sure how that would work.

The mileage on the van is higher now than when I officially rejected it.

I have no contact with the dealer. Looking back if I'd approached them after the fault happened again they probably would have been more helpful but because I involved the finance company I think I got their back up. 

Edited above

MyRealNameToo

PTP123 said:

The dealer have informed the finance company they will not be accepting rejection and I am in the belief that they will fight it all the way.

The have hinted to me that it's not my problem. They will refund me regardless and chase the dealer for a refund. Not sure how that would work.

S75 of the CCA makes those providing finance jointly liable with the merchant however it also gives the bank the right of recovery from the merchant. 

In the cases of credit cards etc generally banks dont bother to exercise the right, according to BornAgain other than in exceptional circumstances. 

When the merchant is selling the banks credit however you'd assume the bank feels it has more leverage as for one they are in direct contract with the merchant in most circumstances and can always withdraw their services to the merchant if the merchant doesnt act reasonably on claims under S75. A dealer will have a hard job selling vehicles if they no longer have the facility to offer credit. 

What happens between the finance company and the dealer isnt of your concern though. 

paul_c123

PTP123 said:

PTP123 said:

The dealer have informed the finance company they will not be accepting rejection and I am in the belief that they will fight it all the way.

The *FINANCE COMPANY *have hinted to me that it's not my problem. They will refund me regardless and chase the dealer for a refund. Not sure how that would work.

The mileage on the van is higher now than when I officially rejected it.

I have no contact with the dealer. Looking back if I'd approached them after the fault happened again they probably would have been more helpful but because I involved the finance company I think I got their back up. 

Edited above

Have the finance company already said they will refund you? Any further details from them on this aspect?

PTP123

Yes, the finance company have sided with me although theres no mention of collecting the vehicle.

I'm more concerned that after I get refunded I am approached again if they find out I've done more miles in it since I rejected it and if they find out I've been using it for business. ( it wouldn't be hard, a simple search on my name links me to my companies house, linkdin, facebook page etc)

paul_c123

It would be a reasonable assumption to assume they will be in contact to arrange collection. Since there will be a deduction for usage anyway, I don't think the additional mileage will be an issue - simply use the vehicle up until you have received the refund, then don't use it after that date.

In any case, these are details to ask the finance company really, we can only guess. For example they might want you to physically return it to the dealer, they might send a driver to collect, they might want it collected before refund is paid, etc. 

MyRealNameToo

paul_c123 said:

It would be a reasonable assumption to assume they will be in contact to arrange collection. Since there will be a deduction for usage anyway, I don't think the additional mileage will be an issue - simply use the vehicle up until you have received the refund, then don't use it after that date.

You arent allowed to take and use someone else's property without their permission. By rejecting the vehicle to the finance company the OP has declared they are no longer to be its owner and whilst the finance company may not have collected it yet, or may even argue if it can be rejected the fact the OP is still using it is a significant problem. 

paul_c123

What does "no long to be its owner" mean? The OP was NEVER the owner of the car anyway, the finance company bought the car from the dealer and remains the true owner pre- or post- rejection or collection, up until they sell it on etc.

It comes down to what has been contractually agreed to. The contract, obviously, allows the OP to use the vehicle while the contract is in force. There remains a contract until the refund is paid.