Adult who lack capacity and banking

Flakie

My son is 42 and has autism and SLD. he is unable to manage his own affairs. Many years ago I set up current bank accounts for him and an ISA. One bank account receives his benefits and is his personal money and the other receives his funding from direct payments and I pay for his day service with that. They are both in joint names with me. I am his appointee. Don’t hold Deputyship and cannot get LPA as he can’t agree. The bank at the time was also happy to set up an ISA which has rolled over over the years when it matured. I’m reading now that because of his lack of capacity some of this may be wrong, particularly the ISA, as they are intended for people who can manage their own affairs. Any advice either way would be appreciated and if this is correct what am I meant to do to put things right? Thanks. 

Savvy_Sue

I don't know how you put right anything which might be wrong, but you may need to consider Deputyship. I have a friend in a similar situation who is reluctantly considering this because of the limitations of Appointeeship. 

Their adult child lives in supported accommodation, but setting up a tenancy agreement, for example, proved problematic. 

I would also wish to future-proof as far as possible. 

Flakie

Thanks. We are considering Deputyship but I still can’t get my head around how you actually document what your person spends. I understand the idea of what’s in the bank at the beginning of the year and what’s in at the end but it’s what happens in the middle I’m not sure about! As for the ISA I might just put it in his current account for now and not bother to renew it till I can work things out. Thanks, 

elsien

How are you planning to put it in his current account when he doesn’t have the capacity to sign this for himself? With the joint account you run the risk that if the bank grasps that he lacks capacity they could freeze the account.

He needs a deputyship if it’s the amount of money that make the fees worthwhile and you need to start tracking his income and expenditure because that is what the OPG would require. So how does he get given money for spends  at the moment – do you give him a certain amount, does he have a bankcard, Does he not touch money at all and someone does it for him?
because of all the ISA money goes into the current account how are you going stop him from spending it if he can access it himself? 

I’m not sure why you’ve got the idea that an ISA is for people who can manage their own affairs. They are purely a tax  wrapper but anyone who lacks capacity would now have an LPA or deputy to set it up for them. 

Flakie

elsien said:

How are you planning to put it in his current account when he doesn’t have the capacity to sign this for himself? With the joint account you run the risk that if the bank grasps that he lacks capacity they could freeze the account.

He needs a deputyship if it’s the amount of money that make the fees worthwhile and you need to start tracking his income and expenditure because that is what the OPG would require. So how does he get given money for spends  at the moment – do you give him a certain amount, does he have a bankcard, Does he not touch money at all and someone does it for him?
because of all the ISA money goes into the current account how are you going stop him from spending it if he can access it himself? 

I’m not sure why you’ve got the idea that an ISA is for people who can manage their own affairs. They are purely a tax  wrapper but anyone who lacks capacity would now have an LPA or deputy to set it up for them. 

As the ISA is in his name I can transfer it directly into another account that bears his name which the current account does.
The account was opened in branch many years ago with both of us present and evidence was given of his disability and the lack of capacity.
I am his appointee therefore am responsible for his benefits. 

We both have a bank card in our own names on the account and I assist him in using it but he doesn’t go out alone (requires 24/7 support) and doesn’t carry his own card so the situation would never arise.
He has a wallet with a relatively small amount of money in it which he takes out with him on supported outings and can use that to pay for expenses.
Thank you for your comments. 

Albermarle

Flakie said:

Thanks. We are considering Deputyship but I still can’t get my head around how you actually document what your person spends. I understand the idea of what’s in the bank at the beginning of the year and what’s in at the end but it’s what happens in the middle I’m not sure about! As for the ISA I might just put it in his current account for now and not bother to renew it till I can work things out. Thanks, 

To be clear there are two deputyship types.
One is for finance, and one for health & welfare.
The first one should be straightforward, but you are unlikely to get one for the latter. They are only agreed in exceptional cases. ( Just so you know) .

I am not 100% sure but I do not think anything has been done wrong by him having an ISA.
All savings and bank accounts are designed basically for someone who can manage their own affairs, not just ISAs.

However the basic reason for holding savings in a cash ISA is to protect the interest from tax.
If he has no taxable earnings, he can earn a very large amount of interest in a normal savings account without paying tax, so an ISA may well be unnecessary anyway.

Savvy_Sue

Albermarle said:

I am not 100% sure but I do not think anything has been done wrong by him having an ISA.
All savings and bank accounts are designed basically for someone who can manage their own affairs, not just ISAs.

However the basic reason for holding savings in a cash ISA is to protect the interest from tax.
If he has no taxable earnings, he can earn a very large amount of interest in a normal savings account without paying tax, so an ISA may well be unnecessary anyway.

Although of course it may prove difficult to open any new savings accounts of any kind at this stage, without Deputyship.