Salary increase under these circumstances?

Kai_63

I started a new senior role 6 months ago in a new company.

I have a team of 4 right now but my line manager has agreed a restructure with the business which means my team would grow to 13 people.

I will have one new direct report and the number of disciplines that fall under my remit will also increase. Half the team will be new recruits.

A few of the people are dotted lines into me but I am responsible for their output.

I was told when I joined that my salary was at the top of the end of the scale for my level.

Would love advice on whether this would be considered an increase in scope for role and also whether I should still ask for a salary increase or even a promotion despite my short time here?

mebu60

Why would you not ask for a promotion in level and an accompanying salary increase? 

Kai_63

mebu60 said:

Why would you not ask for a promotion in level and an accompanying salary increase? 

When you say in level, do you mean under the same job title? I've been told I'm at the ceiling of the pay grade at my level of title. 

In terms of a regular promotion to the next level, I'd only been there 6 months so wasn't sure. Also wanted to clarify on this forum whether people consider it big enough a change in scope to warrant one. I know additional team members doesn't automatically mean a salary increase.

Isthisforreal99

If you feel the duties merit a pay rise ask for one. Ultimately it depends how highly the company value you.

Is it private sector? If so, pay scales are usually more flexible.

Grumpy_chap

Kai_63 said:

I started a new senior role 6 months ago in a new company.

I have a team of 4 right now but my line manager has agreed a restructure with the business which means my team would grow to 13 people.

I will have one new direct report and the number of disciplines that fall under my remit will also increase. Half the team will be new recruits.

A few of the people are dotted lines into me but I am responsible for their output.

I was told when I joined that my salary was at the top of the end of the scale for my level.

Would love advice on whether this would be considered an increase in scope for role and also whether I should still ask for a salary increase or even a promotion despite my short time here?

In some ways this might be an easier role if you are changing from team leader (4) and one of the team actually doing the work (and also managing) to a team manager (13) but now only managing and not having to also juggle actually doing the work.

As to whether a promotion to a higher grade is viable, how are the other teams structured in the company?  Are all the team leaders of a team of 4 at Grade E and all the managers with a team of 13 at Grade D?
Are all the manager of this type of team at Grade E regardless of whether a team of 4 or 13?

Emmia

Also be careful of rocking the boat too much as you've been there less than 2 years, as you can be let go for almost any reason.

I'd ask for a regrading, and salary increase... But if they only offered you an extra £50 a month how would you feel?

Kai_63

Isthisforreal99 said:

If you feel the duties merit a pay rise ask for one. Ultimately it depends how highly the company value you.

Is it private sector? If so, pay scales are usually more flexible.

It is private sector. I've only been there a few months which makes it harder to gauge how it will be received. 

Emmia

Kai_63 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

If you feel the duties merit a pay rise ask for one. Ultimately it depends how highly the company value you.

Is it private sector? If so, pay scales are usually more flexible.

It is private sector. I've only been there a few months which makes it harder to gauge how it will be received. 

How easily can you find another job? The company can let you go pretty easily with less than 2 years employment.

Kai_63

Grumpy_chap said:

Kai_63 said:

I started a new senior role 6 months ago in a new company.

I have a team of 4 right now but my line manager has agreed a restructure with the business which means my team would grow to 13 people.

I will have one new direct report and the number of disciplines that fall under my remit will also increase. Half the team will be new recruits.

A few of the people are dotted lines into me but I am responsible for their output.

I was told when I joined that my salary was at the top of the end of the scale for my level.

Would love advice on whether this would be considered an increase in scope for role and also whether I should still ask for a salary increase or even a promotion despite my short time here?

In some ways this might be an easier role if you are changing from team leader (4) and one of the team actually doing the work (and also managing) to a team manager (13) but now only managing and not having to also juggle actually doing the work.

As to whether a promotion to a higher grade is viable, how are the other teams structured in the company?  Are all the team leaders of a team of 4 at Grade E and all the managers with a team of 13 at Grade D?
Are all the manager of this type of team at Grade E regardless of whether a team of 4 or 13?

Yes I'll still be doing the doing to an extent as well as doing increased team leadership/management.

There aren't that many comparable teams in the org, but we will be one of the larger ones. There are quite a few people one level up from me who only manage or two people though. I don't think anyone at my level manages so many people.

There are apparently strict pay scales but the grades are more about scope of work than the number of people they manage.

My increase in scope is reflected in the revenue we can bring (e.g. an increase) as well as managing teamd virtually across other countries (which I don't do now). 

Grumpy_chap

Kai_63 said:

My increase in scope is reflected in the revenue we can bring (e.g. an increase) as well as managing teamd virtually across other countries (which I don't do now). 

Maybe you need to baseline the revenue the team generates now (your own team of 4 and the larger team of 13), maybe on a per-head basis.

Then, maybe, do the role with the new team and demonstrate how you have lead the team to grow that revenue in absolute terms and on a per-head basis (hence greater efficiency).

The either use that success to simply ask for a greater reward package or as a tool to move up to a higher grade with the commensurate change of duties and package.

Note I have use the phrase "greater reward package" rather than payrise.  Sometimes, simply asking for a payrise can be just seen as greedy.  Negotiating a more favourable (for you) reward package might be seen more positively by the company (and allows you to get more from the business without it being so obviously pulling your salary outside the range of the grade level).

MyRealNameToo

I always struggle with these posts where people declare themselves as very senior but then give little context. To me "very senior" would be an ExCo member or the direct report of an ExCo member at group level. I'd expect most to have multiple layers of staff below them but there are some specialties where that won't be the case. 

The OP says they have strict pay grades which to me suggests a larger organisation but then say at 14 staff they have the largest number of people under their control... in most organisations I've worked in middle management would have 100+ staff (10 team managers each managing a team of 10)


I would argue that headcount is a poor judgement of seniority. People in consumer businesses and in operations will often have vast numbers of people, the Ops Director of claims in my old employer had 10,000 staff reporting to them (obv through several layers). On the flip side the Chief Actuary, an ExCo member, had 8. Despite the disparity in number of staff and therefore budgets the CA was the more senior role and the much higher paid. 


For the OP I would ignore the headcount aspect, thats a very minor part of a very senior person's role. I would look much more at the responsibilities and how they have changed. There was little detail in the original post so going to have to make something up but if you were previously the Sales Director and therefore originally responsible for the volume of sales but have now been asked to also take on the Head of Product as well then you've basically become responsible for the majority of the revenue generation which is a significant increase in scope. 

Of cause this has to be tempered with the fact that when out in the smoking area I once heard two call centre agents saying that seen stuff happening at the Xmas party with "very senior manager". The person in question was a shift manager, who reported into a site manager, who reported into an area manager who reported into the ops director who reported into the COO. So there is a perspective on these things, as I would have classed myself as middle management and yet was a grade above the chap they were talking about.