Parking charge - whole pemise being parking supposedly

steaders

Hi,

I entered university and waited outside a building for over an hour and then left and have now received a parking charge notice by post.

Before entering through the barrier there are two signs one saying "no stopping" and another saying parking charges apply however they are positioned far before the barrier maybe 5 metres before so I had no time to read them (I only confirmed this after checking google maps afterwards). Where I was waiting for the hour there were no signs either indicating no waiting or that I need to pay parking.

I just want to know what are my chances of winning if this hypothetically went to court because I understand if I lose the charges will be much higher (than the current "discounted" amount) assuming I follow the remaining steps given by this forum correctly.

I also would like to understand what kind of harrassment I can get given their NTK seems to be valid since I was struggling to find more detail on the forum apologies if I missed anything.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Other information if useful:

- Parkmaven issued the charge and they are listed as a BPA member

- The NTK seems to pass all the validity requirements as specified on this forum

- I appealed and they already rejected saying the whole carpark is well signed

Gr1pr

Without seeing the full facts of a future court case then it's impossible to predict if a hearing will take place,  it may be discontinued beforehand for a single pcn 

Certainly it's all private land and waiting for an hour, not 5 minutes is definitely parked and should have been paid for 

Its unlikely to win at popla unless poor and inadequate signage can be proven by you

Signage issues are always a good defence point 

Harassment has zero chance of working, it's a legitimate invoice,  according to the private parking company,  Parkmaven 

Its almost impossible to stop or park for a long period of time without payment or permission these days 

steaders

Gr1pr said:

Without seeing the full facts of a future court case then it's impossible to predict if a hearing will take place,  it may be discontinued beforehand for a single pcn 

Certainly it's all private land and waiting for an hour, not 5 minutes is definitely parked and should have been paid for 

Its unlikely to win at popla unless poor and inadequate signage can be proven by you

Signage issues are always a good defence point 

Harassment has zero chance of working, it's a legitimate invoice,  according to the private parking company,  Parkmaven 

Its almost impossible to stop or park for a long period of time without payment or permission these days 

Ok thanks I might just suck it up then and pay given it's not as clearcut as other situations on this forum. Where I was waiting is a 2+ hours drive away and petrol will probably cost a similar amount so I don't really want to invest time into building up any sort of defence unless I am really confident about the outcome. If I was going to challenge it it would be more out of principle.

Gr1pr

We are not saying that you should pay, but stating facts and opinions 

To win at popla, or in a court hearing,  you need a valid defence or valid legal point,  typically revolving around no landowner authority and signage 

If it was a pay to park car park then it's hard to argue it,  especially if the signs are there to be read,  should a driver actually search them out

Going forward,  in future ALWAYS check the signs when stopping or parking,  wherever it may be,  otherwise it's easy to attract a pcn,  because the private parking companies issue around 15 million PCNs per annum

steaders

I wasn't ac

Gr1pr said:

We are not saying that you should pay, but stating facts and opinions 

To win at popla, or in a court hearing,  you need a valid defence or valid legal point,  typically revolving around no landowner authority and signage 

If it was a pay to park car park then it's hard to argue it,  especially if the signs are there to be read,  should a driver actually search them out

Going forward,  in future ALWAYS check the signs when stopping or parking,  wherever it may be,  otherwise it's easy to attract a pcn,  because the private parking companies issue around 15 million PCNs per annum

I wasn't actually parked in a parking lot. There are parking lots on the premises which show the usual pay for parking signs but I wouldn't have seen them since I just drove to the front of a building and waited.

I was hoping it's more they have no way of showing that I was parked in the parking lot rather than waiting inside of my car in front of a building but I now noticed there are signs before you enter the premises at all which imply the whole site is essentially parking which weakens my defence so I wanted to check on here.

Gr1pr

The whole site is private,  so required payment or prompt departure 

Parking lot is not a term used here 

It appears that the driver did not park in an authorised bay,  plus it seems that the driver should have paid for the time on site if its a pay to park car park 

If the driver parked on the roadway instead of in a bay then that would probably be a breach of the parking contract on that private property 

We would need to see a redacted picture of the NTK PCN letter and pictures of the signage before any targeted advice can be given,  but you are welcome to argue your case in a possible future court claim if you wish, where these factors would be tested in front of a judge if Parkmaven paid for the court hearing,  possibly next year 

steaders

Gr1pr said:

The whole site is private,  so required payment or prompt departure 

Parking lit is not a term used here 

It appears that the driver did not park in an authorised bay,  plus it seems that the driver should have paid for the time on site if its a pay to park car park 

If the driver parked on the roadway instead of in a bay then that would probably be a breach of the parking contract on that private property 

We would need to see a redacted picture of the NTK PCN letter and pictures of the signage before any targeted advice can be given,  but you are welcome to argue your case in a possible future court claim if you wish, where these factors would be tested in front of a judge if Parkmaven paid for the court hearing,  possibly next year 

Here are images of the front and back of the NTK and the signs that can be seen before going through the barrier. I understand that if the driver saw the signs before entering then it can be argued that they should have looked for signs and realised they should find a bay and pay for parking so I think the argument would just be that the driver didn't see the signs in the first place since they were focused on driving.

I don't intend to go back to the site to take pictures so if I were to challenge this I would be relying on descriptions + google maps if that is even allowed (probably not since it might be old?). If that is not strong enough I'm willing to treat this as a lesson and just pay.

Car1980

1. You don't challenge things in court. The onus is on them to make their claim, provide signage, the contract etc.

2. The No Waiting etc. sign is nothing to do with Parkmaven and is not a contract.

3. Parkmaven sometimes make court claims using DCB Legal and discontinue them at the eleventh hour. Defending involves pasting the template wording into a form.

4. You will receive more of these in your lifetime. Everybody does. Either you roll over a pay them every time, or you put some time into learning about the process. Then you won't be one of these people who sees the world "CCJ" or "court" and immediately caves  

5. I wouldn't pay personally. 

Coupon-mad

steaders said:

Gr1pr said:

Without seeing the full facts of a future court case then it's impossible to predict if a hearing will take place,  it may be discontinued beforehand for a single pcn 

Certainly it's all private land and waiting for an hour, not 5 minutes is definitely parked and should have been paid for 

Its unlikely to win at popla unless poor and inadequate signage can be proven by you

Signage issues are always a good defence point 

Harassment has zero chance of working, it's a legitimate invoice,  according to the private parking company,  Parkmaven 

Its almost impossible to stop or park for a long period of time without payment or permission these days 

Ok thanks I might just suck it up then and pay 

No - I predict you won't! That is NOT the advice here nor from MSE's official Guide (linked at the top of every page). Read it.

Good people don't pay unfair invoices from a rogue industry to make them go away.