Microsoft and Apple security UPDATE

libra10

Several months ago my brother in law passed away, leaving my husband as main beneficiary in his will.  We are both executors.
He had a six month old HP laptop and two year old iphone which we have been trying to access to see old family photos, and for my husband to use personally.
Unfortunately we have been unable to discover the pass codes for either phone or laptop, and are unable to use these devices at all.  Although we guessed his Ipad code, and have been checking any emails which come through.
From checking, we understand that Apple will not accept copies of the death certificate or will, you need a court order before they will do anything.  The cost appears to be around £300 or so, which seems complex and expensive.
Similar with Microsoft - you can fill a form in giving several details of the account, emails sent, various other details, which we weren't sure of.  Although we did have his Hotmail log in account, they refused to allow further access.  With hindsight, we should have had discussions with our relative - an elderly bachelor, with no children, which might have been helpful.
Therefore we are owners of two expensive devices, the laptop hardly used, which will probably end up in landfill.  Due mainly to two tech giants (who boast about their green credentials)  being unwilling to help in genuine cases.  
Surely copies of a death certificate and will, along with being an executor of an estate should be enough security for them to offer help?
Sorry for such a long post.

debitcardmayhem

You should be able to access the laptop, by resetting the password, or at least be able to access the hard drive using a linux live usb, assuming that is not protected by bitlocker. 

The devices do not need to end up in landfill either, certainly not the laptop a reinstall would allow the reuse, and probably the iphone, but I am not au fait with iphones

Sorry for your loss.

DE_612183

Chances are the iPad and iPhone back up photos etc to the same iCloud account.

If you have access to email you should be able to reset his Microsoft password - what type of email account have you got access to?

libra10

debitcardmayhem said:

You should be able to access the laptop, by resetting the password, or at least be able to access the hard drive using a linux live usb, assuming that is not protected by bitlocker. 

The devices do not need to end up in landfill either, certainly not the laptop a reinstall would allow the reuse, and probably the iphone, but I am not au fait with iphones

Thanks for replying.  Unfortunately we are unable to bypass the HP Windows 11 laptop sign in passcode, have tried various ways.  Our relative (probably used face recognition for access).  Therefore, unable to reinstall.

DE_612183 said:

Chances are the iPad and iPhone back up photos etc to the same iCloud account.

If you have access to email you should be able to reset his Microsoft password - what type of email account have you got access to?

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the 2 step varification to change password, needs access to text a code to the phone, which we are unable to use.   Our relative's email was a Hotpoint account.

MyRealNameToo

libra10 said:

Several months ago my brother in law passed away, leaving my husband as main beneficiary in his will.  We are both executors.
He had a six month old HP laptop and two year old iphone which we have been trying to access to see old family photos, and for my husband to use personally.
Unfortunately we have been unable to discover the pass codes for either phone or laptop, and are unable to use these devices at all.  Although we guessed his Ipad code, and have been checking any emails which come through.
From checking, we understand that Apple will not accept copies of the death certificate or will, you need a court order before they will do anything.  The cost appears to be around £300 or so, which seems complex and expensive.
Similar with Microsoft - you can fill a form in giving several details of the account, emails sent, various other details, which we weren't sure of.  Although we did have his Hotmail log in account, they refused to allow further access.  With hindsight, we should have had discussions with our relative - an elderly bachelor, with no children, which might have been helpful.
Therefore we are owners of two expensive devices, the laptop hardly used, which will probably end up in landfill.  Due mainly to two tech giants (who boast about their green credentials)  being unwilling to help in genuine cases.  
Surely copies of a death certificate and will, along with being an executor of an estate should be enough security for them to offer help?
Sorry for such a long post.

Presumably they hadn't setup a legacy on their Apple account? Since Dec 2021 you could set someone up who would be granted access to your account on your passing. If that was setup then the hurdles are much smaller to gain access.

If not then Apple sticks by its idea that privacy is a fundamental human right so put a lot of hurdles in the way to ensure the wishes of the original owner are followed. They need processes that work globally and hence relying on a judge is an easier solution than knowing how to verify a will and the process it goes through everywhere.

libra10 said:

DE_612183 said:

Chances are the iPad and iPhone back up photos etc to the same iCloud account.

If you have access to email you should be able to reset his Microsoft password - what type of email account have you got access to?

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the 2 step varification to change password, needs access to text a code to the phone, which we are unable to use.   Our relative's email was a Hotpoint account.

Why do you need to change the password? If you can get into the iPad you can open the Photos app to see what images are there. 

Undervalued

libra10 said:

Several months ago my brother in law passed away, leaving my husband as main beneficiary in his will.  We are both executors.
He had a six month old HP laptop and two year old iphone which we have been trying to access to see old family photos, and for my husband to use personally.
Unfortunately we have been unable to discover the pass codes for either phone or laptop, and are unable to use these devices at all.  Although we guessed his Ipad code, and have been checking any emails which come through.
From checking, we understand that Apple will not accept copies of the death certificate or will, you need a court order before they will do anything.  The cost appears to be around £300 or so, which seems complex and expensive.
Similar with Microsoft - you can fill a form in giving several details of the account, emails sent, various other details, which we weren't sure of.  Although we did have his Hotmail log in account, they refused to allow further access.  With hindsight, we should have had discussions with our relative - an elderly bachelor, with no children, which might have been helpful.
Therefore we are owners of two expensive devices, the laptop hardly used, which will probably end up in landfill.  Due mainly to two tech giants (who boast about their green credentials)  being unwilling to help in genuine cases.  
Surely copies of a death certificate and will, along with being an executor of an estate should be enough security for them to offer help?
Sorry for such a long post.

No. As I understand it from the solicitor that wrote my will specific instruction is needed to bequeath access to the data on electronic devices. As others have said the devices can normally be wiped and reset so that the hardware is not wasted.

There may be perfectly valid reasons why a deceased person would not have wanted their nearest and dearest to see some of the contents. Equally they may just have forgotten or have been badly advised and obviously it is sad if that is the case.

marcia_

MyRealNameToo said:

libra10 said:

Several months ago my brother in law passed away, leaving my husband as main beneficiary in his will.  We are both executors.
He had a six month old HP laptop and two year old iphone which we have been trying to access to see old family photos, and for my husband to use personally.
Unfortunately we have been unable to discover the pass codes for either phone or laptop, and are unable to use these devices at all.  Although we guessed his Ipad code, and have been checking any emails which come through.
From checking, we understand that Apple will not accept copies of the death certificate or will, you need a court order before they will do anything.  The cost appears to be around £300 or so, which seems complex and expensive.
Similar with Microsoft - you can fill a form in giving several details of the account, emails sent, various other details, which we weren't sure of.  Although we did have his Hotmail log in account, they refused to allow further access.  With hindsight, we should have had discussions with our relative - an elderly bachelor, with no children, which might have been helpful.
Therefore we are owners of two expensive devices, the laptop hardly used, which will probably end up in landfill.  Due mainly to two tech giants (who boast about their green credentials)  being unwilling to help in genuine cases.  
Surely copies of a death certificate and will, along with being an executor of an estate should be enough security for them to offer help?
Sorry for such a long post.

Presumably they hadn't setup a legacy on their Apple account? Since Dec 2021 you could set someone up who would be granted access to your account on your passing. If that was setup then the hurdles are much smaller to gain access.

If not then Apple sticks by its idea that privacy is a fundamental human right so put a lot of hurdles in the way to ensure the wishes of the original owner are followed. They need processes that work globally and hence relying on a judge is an easier solution than knowing how to verify a will and the process it goes through everywhere.

libra10 said:

DE_612183 said:

Chances are the iPad and iPhone back up photos etc to the same iCloud account.

If you have access to email you should be able to reset his Microsoft password - what type of email account have you got access to?

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the 2 step varification to change password, needs access to text a code to the phone, which we are unable to use.   Our relative's email was a Hotpoint account.

Why do you need to change the password? If you can get into the iPad you can open the Photos app to see what images are there. 

 How do you do this? 

libra10

@MyRealNameToo  Thanks for replying.  I had read about the legacy account, unfortunately I don't think our relative would have known about it.  It would have been helpful though!  Regarding privacy and security, I agree, they are essential when using the internet.  However, when a deceased person has legally bequeathed his possessions to someone else, surely that should give that person legal rights to the bequest, and have the power to use it?  Unfortunately, there are few photos on the ipad, we wondered whether there would be more on the iphone, though they would all probably be backed up to cloud.

Thanks @Undervalued for your comments.  We would be happy if we could reinstall the laptop and iphone, without access to our relative's data.  Unfortunately though, due to not knowing passcodes etc, we are unable to do so.

mta999

If I died and I hadn't left details of how to access any of my acccounts then I would be pretty miffed to say the least at my relatives trying to hack.into them

RumRat

If you need the phone for verification, remove the sim and put it into another phone to receive the text message.

MyRealNameToo

marcia_ said:

MyRealNameToo said:

libra10 said:

Several months ago my brother in law passed away, leaving my husband as main beneficiary in his will.  We are both executors.
He had a six month old HP laptop and two year old iphone which we have been trying to access to see old family photos, and for my husband to use personally.
Unfortunately we have been unable to discover the pass codes for either phone or laptop, and are unable to use these devices at all.  Although we guessed his Ipad code, and have been checking any emails which come through.
From checking, we understand that Apple will not accept copies of the death certificate or will, you need a court order before they will do anything.  The cost appears to be around £300 or so, which seems complex and expensive.
Similar with Microsoft - you can fill a form in giving several details of the account, emails sent, various other details, which we weren't sure of.  Although we did have his Hotmail log in account, they refused to allow further access.  With hindsight, we should have had discussions with our relative - an elderly bachelor, with no children, which might have been helpful.
Therefore we are owners of two expensive devices, the laptop hardly used, which will probably end up in landfill.  Due mainly to two tech giants (who boast about their green credentials)  being unwilling to help in genuine cases.  
Surely copies of a death certificate and will, along with being an executor of an estate should be enough security for them to offer help?
Sorry for such a long post.

Presumably they hadn't setup a legacy on their Apple account? Since Dec 2021 you could set someone up who would be granted access to your account on your passing. If that was setup then the hurdles are much smaller to gain access.

If not then Apple sticks by its idea that privacy is a fundamental human right so put a lot of hurdles in the way to ensure the wishes of the original owner are followed. They need processes that work globally and hence relying on a judge is an easier solution than knowing how to verify a will and the process it goes through everywhere.

libra10 said:

DE_612183 said:

Chances are the iPad and iPhone back up photos etc to the same iCloud account.

If you have access to email you should be able to reset his Microsoft password - what type of email account have you got access to?

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the 2 step varification to change password, needs access to text a code to the phone, which we are unable to use.   Our relative's email was a Hotpoint account.

Why do you need to change the password? If you can get into the iPad you can open the Photos app to see what images are there. 

 How do you do this? 

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102631

libra10 said:

MyRealNameToo  Thanks for replying.  I had read about the legacy account, unfortunately I don't think our relative would have known about it.  It would have been helpful though!  Regarding privacy and security, I agree, they are essential when using the internet.  However, when a deceased person has legally bequeathed his possessions to someone else, surely that should give that person legal rights to the bequest, and have the power to use it?  Unfortunately, there are few photos on the ipad, we wondered whether there would be more on the iphone, though they would all probably be backed up to cloud.

Normally you would see the same on both because the iCloud process is so all the devices have all the images, contacts etc. It will automatically reduce photos to thumbnails on the device if it's running out of space and then pull down the full sized image if someone opens it. 

People can run multiple apple devices without synchronisation but you'd have to have made the active decision to disable it as by default its on. Now there are undoubtedly some that do it but most dont as you're limiting the benefit of buying into the ecosystem. 

Why not put the phone sim into another phone to get the texts?