Incorrect Electric fire bought

Karingal

Hello, I unfortunately bought an electric fire for a media wall that was being built.  I went into a showroom and saw an electric fire that I liked.  I explained that the builder was coming in the next day to start building and therefore I would need a fire to be put in.  They said they could give me the dimensions for the builder and I thought all would be well.  Unfortunately when the fire was delivered a week later and the builder opened the box and took it out we realised the fire was too big and that it was a type that needed to be installed first then the wall to be built around it.  We put the fir back in the box and called the showroom.  The gentleman on the phone explained there and then it was to be built around the fire and it was my fault.  I explained that this wasn’t explained to me when I purchased it.  Anyway, they agreed to take the fire back and return it to the manufacturer.  The manufacturer now won’t give the credit back as they are saying the box was opened and the fire is ‘damaged’. I can assure you we did not damage the fire.  We took it out for about 15 minutes and it was returned back into the box.  Nothing was done to the fire.  They showed photos but it looks like dust.  I’m so upset.  I was miss sold this item but they won’t have it as it was all by word of mouth.  I can’t prove it.  It cost me a lot of money too.  Is there anything I can do…… 

elsien

Why was it returned to the manufacturer anyway? That’s the bit I’m not understanding, or did the store have to order it from the manufacturer and then return it when it was no longer required because they don’t keep it in stock?

Grumpy_chap

Karingal said:

Hello, I unfortunately bought an electric fire for a media wall that was being built.  I went into a showroom and saw an electric fire that I liked.  I explained that the builder was coming in the next day to start building and therefore I would need a fire to be put in.  They said they could give me the dimensions for the builder and I thought all would be well.  Unfortunately when the fire was delivered a week later and the builder opened the box and took it out we realised the fire was too big and that it was a type that needed to be installed first then the wall to be built around it.  We put the fir back in the box and called the showroom.  The gentleman on the phone explained there and then it was to be built around the fire and it was my fault.  I explained that this wasn’t explained to me when I purchased it.  Anyway, they agreed to take the fire back and return it to the manufacturer.  The manufacturer now won’t give the credit back as they are saying the box was opened and the fire is ‘damaged’. I can assure you we did not damage the fire.  We took it out for about 15 minutes and it was returned back into the box.  Nothing was done to the fire.  They showed photos but it looks like dust.  I’m so upset.  I was miss sold this item but they won’t have it as it was all by word of mouth.  I can’t prove it.  It cost me a lot of money too.  Is there anything I can do…… 

You have no right to a refund for an in-store purchase, it is down to the goodwill of the retailer.

What will it cost to have the wall trimmed back to accommodate the fire you have purchased and then the wall made good?
What will it cost to buy (and fit) an alternative fire that will fit the wall opening that is available?
What will you get for the fire you have purchased if you sell via a second hand marketplace / online auction or such like?

Renfrewman

Mis bought, not mis sold IMHO.

Karingal

The fire is much too big.  The measurements they highlighted for the builder to use to build the wall is what is visible, not what should be behind the wall.  So when we opened it is bigger in all dimensions.  Why didn’t they state the fire had to be installed then the media wall to be built?  I told them the media wall was being built before the fire was to be delivered.  They could have directed me to another fire that was suitable…

Ayr_Rage

Karingal said:

Hello, I unfortunately bought an electric fire for a media wall that was being built.  I went into a showroom and saw an electric fire that I liked.  I explained that the builder was coming in the next day to start building and therefore I would need a fire to be put in.  They said they could give me the dimensions for the builder and I thought all would be well.  Unfortunately when the fire was delivered a week later and the builder opened the box and took it out we realised the fire was too big and that it was a type that needed to be installed first then the wall to be built around it.  We put the fir back in the box and called the showroom.  The gentleman on the phone explained there and then it was to be built around the fire and it was my fault.  I explained that this wasn’t explained to me when I purchased it.  Anyway, they agreed to take the fire back and return it to the manufacturer.  The manufacturer now won’t give the credit back as they are saying the box was opened and the fire is ‘damaged’. I can assure you we did not damage the fire.  We took it out for about 15 minutes and it was returned back into the box.  Nothing was done to the fire.  They showed photos but it looks like dust.  I’m so upset.  I was miss sold this item but they won’t have it as it was all by word of mouth.  I can’t prove it.  It cost me a lot of money too.  Is there anything I can do…… 

Unfortunately another case of mis-buying, your title is 100% correct.

You did not ask the right questions of the seller or the builder as to what was suitable, you just "thought all would be well" without getting the full information.

For a purchase in store you do not have any right to a refund unless the goods are faulty or not as described on the contract.

Your best bet would've been to try to sell the item yourself or see if the seller would give a partial refund.

Now the item is back with the manufacturer there are going to be further transport costs involved to get your property back.

An expensive lesson indeed.

Aylesbury_Duck

I don't see you have a statutory right to a refund in these circumstances, so it's going to be down to goodwill or what you might be able to negotiate.

They gave you dimensions to give to the builder.  Those dimensions weren't incorrect, they were simply open to interpretation and the right thing to do would have been to have the retailer and builder liaise on the installation, rather than you making a last-minute and rushed purchase just one day before work started.

Okell

Karingal said:

... I went into a showroom and saw an electric fire that I liked.  I explained that the builder was coming in the next day to start building and therefore I would need a fire to be put in.  They said they could give me the dimensions for the builder and I thought all would be well.  Unfortunately when the fire was delivered a week later and the builder opened the box and took it out we realised the fire was too big and that it was a type that needed to be installed first then the wall to be built around it... 

I'm not 100% certain earlier answers are correct - but I'm not a lawyer.

However, s10 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 says:


"10 Goods to be fit for particular purpose

(1)  Subsection (3) applies to a contract to supply goods if before the contract is made the consumer makes known to the trader (expressly or by implication) any particular purpose for which the consumer is contracting for the goods...

... (3) The contract is to be treated as including a term that the goods are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which goods of that kind are usually supplied"  [My bold for emphasis]

My non-lawyer understanding of that is that if you clearly explained what you wanted the fire for (eg to be retro-fitted into a wall that you were having built the following day) then the seller is in breach of contract if they sell you something that cannot be used for that particular purpose.

Of course your problem is that you have nothing in writing to establish what you told them.  However you only need to "prove" it on the balance of probabilities so it becomes a "he said/she said" situation.

I would argue that of course you told them exactly what the fire was intended for - anybody in your situation would be a complete idiot if you didn't tell them exactly what you wanted it for and it would be unreasonable to think you didn't.* They - not you - are meant to be the experts about what they are selling.  They should know if their products can be retro-fitted or not, you can't be expected to know.

The question of whether the dimensions were correct sems to be a red herring to me.  AIUI it doesn't matter if the dimensions were correct or not as the fire had to be installed at the time of building the wall, and not afterwards.

I'd go back and argue the point with them quoting the above part of the Consumer Rights Act.  Depending on what response you get and how much your loss is you might have to conside rsuing them.

Regarding their claim that the fire is damaged - pass.  If you are sure that it wasn't damaged then proceed as above.  If it was damaged, then that complicates things.  Is it at all possible that either you or your builder damaged it?

*I'm assuming of course that you are not a complete idiot and that you did act reasonably

Aylesbury_Duck

Okell said:

Karingal said:

... I went into a showroom and saw an electric fire that I liked.  I explained that the builder was coming in the next day to start building and therefore I would need a fire to be put in.  They said they could give me the dimensions for the builder and I thought all would be well.  Unfortunately when the fire was delivered a week later and the builder opened the box and took it out we realised the fire was too big and that it was a type that needed to be installed first then the wall to be built around it... 

My non-lawyer understanding of that is that if you clearly explained what you wanted the fire for (eg to be retro-fitted into a wall that you were having built the following day) then the seller is in breach of contract if they sell you something that cannot be used for that particular purpose.

On reflection, I think you may be onto something here, but as you suggest, it will be down to exactly how this bit actually happened:

.Karingal said:

I explained that the builder was coming in the next day to start building and therefore I would need a fire to be put in.  

If the retailer simply said something like "No problem, buy this one", then I agree with you that OP may have a route to a refund (alleged damage aside).  If someone said "the builder is coming in the next day to start building" I would think it reasonable to assume that work would be taking place and that when the fire arrived, the builder would work with it to accommodate it.  Were any other questions asked by the retailer?

Alderbank

I agree entirely with @Okell about your rights under s10 of the CRA.

However the devil is in the detail here and in practice your rights in this case depend entirely on what a judge would believe is the most likely outcome of the discussions between you and the trader. He will take into account that you didn't understand the technicalities of the installation but the trader does (or would be expected to know).

However the trader is not the only professional involved here. I would take a hard look at your builder. He is expected to carry out the building work and installation with reasonable care and skill. In my opinion he should have understood about how to install the integral fire effect unit and what would and what would not be possible. I would expect him to be able to build the fire in now even if he has to take down and rebuild some of his recently laid masonry, and I would expect him to bear at least some of the cost.

Unfortunately no help to you now, but in similar circumstances there would be a lot to be said for asking your builder to purchase the fire unit for you. You should expect to pay a little more because of his extra time but hopefully his skill and experience would ensure that everything would fit. Also, if anything did go wrong with sizing etc. you would be clear who to blame.

Karingal

I am totally aware that I panicked bought it as I’d just came back from a holiday and builder could slot me in.  They knew the builder well and knows he works quick.  The frame for the wall and plasterboard was installed within 2 days.  Plasterer came the following day.  So I guess within  3/4 days all electrics and plastering was complete awaiting the fire.  I definitely said that he was building it and I wanted one to slot in.  They never asked any questions, apart from whether I wanted ambient lighting as extra.  To call the showroom and get told the media wall had to be built around that particular fire was never ever mentioned to me before I bought it.  If I’d known that I would not have done so.