I am not a person

Chief_of_Staffy

I tried to renew my passport online. I don’t actually want to go anywhere, but nowadays you need a passport, or a photo driving licence, to perform high risk tasks such as spending over five figures of your own money.

I have an undamaged passport that was issued 28 years ago, and reading the official HM Passport Office documentation was given to believe it would be an easy process. My appearance has barely changed (I’m not bragging, I’m ugly, but I age well) and my 1999 photo is almost identical to my 2025 one. Despite this, and contrary to HM PO’s own documentation, and before my photos are even compared, I am informed by the online service that I must have a ‘countersignatory’.

This countersignatory must be in, or retired from, one of a list of approved professions. These include solicitor, barrister, funeral director, chiropodist, anyone with an OBE... and MP. This is understandable, of course. We don’t want shopworkers, carpenters, artists, cleaners, full-time mothers or any of that riffraff vouching for us, because everyone knows they’re unreliable and in all probability up to no good.

The good news is that despite the fact I keep myself to myself, I know three people who qualify in that respect. The bad news is that none of them hold a passport, which is another mandated attribute of this saintly sponsor.

So that’s that. Being UK born and having contributed eye-watering amounts of tax over several decades (it’s worthwhile mentioning that the powers-that-be don’t demand ID when I pay my taxes twice a year - they know exactly who I am then) I am not only denied the basic human right of travel outside of this country, I am essentially deemed a non-person.

Hold up, though. Instead of a countersignatory, maybe they would accept a current photo driving licence together with my undamaged passport? An original birth certificate? House deeds? Bank statements going back five years across a dozen institutions? An NHS card? NI number confirmation? Current utility bills? Current council tax bill? UTR number? Ten years of tax returns? HMRC correspondence? All of which I have to hand..?

Apparently, no. None of that is worth anything. It’s only the word of Bill down the road, with whom you exchange a cheery hello twice a week whilst you’re walking your respective dogs and who doesn’t even know your surname let alone your personal history, that is evidential enough to validate your very existence.

Such a policy could only be the result of amoebic levels of intelligence, or careful planning. I fear I know which.

Murphybear

Thank you for this, it made me smile😹😹😹

I understand how frustrating it is as I have been in a similar position.

My “sin” was that I changed my name by statutory declaration about 25 years ago.  That meant I just told every organisation I ever had anything to do with that I changed my name.  Most organisations accepted it back then, including the DWP but not the DVLA.  About 10 years ago I wanted to get an old work pension and the pension firm wouldn’t accept any of my documents because they didn’t know me in my current name.  I then drew up some deed poll documents, you could do this online without proving any of your changes, and got a photo driving licence and claimed my pension.

My passport expired 30 years ago.  I contacted the passport office by email and I couldn’t believe how quickly they responded.  I have to apply as a new applicant, not a renewal.  I was gobsmacked when they said they would accept a deed poll 😲

Of course my problem if I decide to get a new passport is I need a countersignatory and I don’t  know anyone well enough to sign apart from my GP and GPs are not allowed to sign these days.  Sadly people I have used in the past are no longer with us.  

Looks like I’ll be going to Ireland or the Channel Isles in the spring rather than the Netherlands as I wanted to go in the flower season.  Unless of course they start demanding a passport.  😝. In which case I’ve always wanted to go to the Shetland Isles and the Orkneys 

Sootyandspark

@Chief_of_Staffy it’s nearly 4am and here I am pondering my life choices that I came across your post. It did make me chuckle (not too loudly or it will wake the dog!) - so, thank you! 

If it’s any consolation - I’m trying to figure out how I am financially worse off being debt-free for the first time in my life. I recently took partial retirement and all my income calculations have been rendered a complete fallacy by the taxman! 

I am surprised that you didn’t mention the cost of renewing your passport - or am I to look forward to that post once you’ve exchanged more than a hello with Bill 😂

Emmia

Counter signatories were extensively discussed on this thread in April

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6593847/nobody-to-sign-passport-photos-anyway-out-of-it

GrubbyGirl_2

There is a huge list of people who can sign.  As a Registered Nurse I used to sign for loads of my friends and even now I am retired I have signed for my next door neighbour.  If all else fails a solicitor will sign for you although you will have to pay.  They are not vouching for you they are simply stating you look like your photo.

Andy_L

Chief_of_Staffy said:

I tried to renew my passport online. I don’t actually want to go anywhere, but nowadays you need a ...a photo driving licence, to perform high risk tasks such as spending over five figures of your own money.

Hold up, though. Instead of a countersignatory, maybe they would accept a current photo driving licence ... which I have to hand..?

Apparently, no. None of that is worth anything. It’s only the word of Bill down the road, with whom you exchange a cheery hello twice a week whilst you’re walking your respective dogs and who doesn’t even know your surname let alone your personal history, that is evidential enough to validate your very existence.

Such a policy could only be the result of amoebic levels of intelligence, or careful planning. I fear I know which.

and the problem is ;-)

Brie

You have my full sympathies on this. 

I'm not a British citizen so have never had to endure the trauma of getting a UK passport.  I have however managed to renew by foreign passport while in the UK over the last 30+ years.  The challenge for me was that it had to be renewed once every 5 years instead of 10.  And I needed 2 signatories who had known me for a minimum of 2 years, one of whom had to be from a short list of professions and none of whom could be paid for the privilege (so no doctors or solicitors).  I had enough friends and neighbours who knew me but finding someone who fitted the short list was often problematic.   

I was grumbling about this to a manager at work once and she asked what the professions were - doctor, lawyer, magistrate, police officer, etc - and she piped up "ooh!  I'm a part time magistrate!!".  I then mentioned that we'd only been in the same department for less then 2 years and she stated "oh tosh!  I'm sure we'd seen each other around the building previously so that must count.  And besides how would they know?"  A bit of a shocking idea that a magistrate, even a part time one, wasn't going to stick too closely to the laws about signing my application but I wasn't about to argue with her.  

Okell

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

There is a huge list of people who can sign.  As a Registered Nurse I used to sign for loads of my friends and even now I am retired I have signed for my next door neighbour.  If all else fails a solicitor will sign for you although you will have to pay.  They are not vouching for you they are simply stating you look like your photo.

No they aren't.

They're saying they've known you for at least two years.

When you act as a counter-signatory you are not just saying that the photo looks like the person

Emmia

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

There is a huge list of people who can sign.  As a Registered Nurse I used to sign for loads of my friends and even now I am retired I have signed for my next door neighbour.  If all else fails a solicitor will sign for you although you will have to pay.  They are not vouching for you they are simply stating you look like your photo.

I think you'll find that just paying a solicitor won't work - they need to know you on a non- professional basis... And paying them means they're acting on a professional basis.

https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

Who can sign your form and photo

Your countersignatory must:

• have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years
• be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
• be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession

Chief_of_Staffy

Sorted now, anyway. A nice chap I barely know, not called Bill, with whom I exchange small talk about twice a month whilst walking our dogs, did the honours. 

cannugec5

The landlord of our local pub has told me he is ‘qualified’ to sign passport photos!