Seller wants to refund my payment but I don't want to.

Pine_martens

I purchased a caravan via eBay but not through the usual eBay process.

In short, the newbie eBayer's posted a caravan for sale stating no bidding and left a mobile number, which we left a voice message of our interest in purchasing it. As I had not heard back, I called them Tuesday morning and they said they had been away. The seller proceeded to inform me that they had a lot of caravan traders offering to buy it and a couple of them were travelling up to see the caravan on Wednesday. They made it clear during the call that they wanted to sell to someone privately, who would look after it, like they had and did not want to sell to traders. After some phone calls we bank transferred the asking price, which was cheap tbh, but we wanted a caravan that had full service history. which this did have, and was cared for, which this clearly was. Payment was received by the seller who provided a receipt via email, and arrangement were made to collect this Saturday. 

Here is the problem.... This morning I received a phone call from the seller saying they want to refund our payment as a caravan trader had offered them 2k more and said that they sold it too cheap. The sellers mentioned the account we transferred the money into was their pension account and their bank had been in contact with them to query this. We said that we have paid for the caravan, bought insurance and paid for a secure storage and arranged for family to see it once we collected it.

They insist we accept their refund of our payment, which we refused. So, what are my rights in collecting the caravan, and not accepting a return of my payment because they want to sell it to a higher bidder?

eskbanker

You can't force them sell it to you if they've changed their mind, but could potentially try pursuing them for loss of bargain arising from their breach of contract, if the contract was formed on payment rather than collection.

QrizB

Pine_martens said:

I purchased a caravan via eBay but not through the usual eBay process.
In short, the newbie eBayer's posted a caravan for sale stating no bidding and left a mobile number, which we left a voice message of our interest in purchasing it.

In shorter, you didn't buy "via eBay" at all but instead made an off-platform deal in violation of eBay's T&C.
You're lucky if you haven't been scammed out of your money.

MyRealNameToo

Pine_martens said:

I purchased a caravan via eBay but not through the usual eBay process.

In short, the newbie eBayer's posted a caravan for sale stating no bidding and left a mobile number, which we left a voice message of our interest in purchasing it. As I had not heard back, I called them Tuesday morning and they said they had been away. The seller proceeded to inform me that they had a lot of caravan traders offering to buy it and a couple of them were travelling up to see the caravan on Wednesday. They made it clear during the call that they wanted to sell to someone privately, who would look after it, like they had and did not want to sell to traders. After some phone calls we bank transferred the asking price, which was cheap tbh, but we wanted a caravan that had full service history. which this did have, and was cared for, which this clearly was. Payment was received by the seller who provided a receipt via email, and arrangement were made to collect this Saturday. 

Here is the problem.... This morning I received a phone call from the seller saying they want to refund our payment as a caravan trader had offered them 2k more and said that they sold it too cheap. The sellers mentioned the account we transferred the money into was their pension account and their bank had been in contact with them to query this. We said that we have paid for the caravan, bought insurance and paid for a secure storage and arranged for family to see it once we collected it.

They insist we accept their refund of our payment, which we refused. So, what are my rights in collecting the caravan, and not accepting a return of my payment because they want to sell it to a higher bidder?

At the end of the day if they arent willing to hand it over you arent going to be able to get it. 

If they want to break the contract though you are entitled to be indemnified so would be pointing out that its not just a refund of the initial payment they need to give you but the losses from the insurance and secure storage they also need to refund for breach of contract. That will close the gap on the differences and may change their mind

noitsnotme

Pine_martens said:

The sellers mentioned the account we transferred the money into was their pension account and their bank had been in contact with them to query this. 

This part makes it all sound very dodgy.  It does all sound very scammy.

mta999

Nobody puts an ebay listing with 'no bids' and a telephone number - you couldn't go against ebay's rules any harder if you tried. In fact I cannot work out they even managed to do it because eBay scans all new listings with AI and checks for things like this.

I would be amazed if you ever see your money again, but then again miracles do.sometimes happen

summary:

1. you sent the money
2. they are not allowing you to collect the caravan

Ayr_Rage

noitsnotme said:

Pine_martens said:

The sellers mentioned the account we transferred the money into was their pension account and their bank had been in contact with them to query this. 

This part makes it all sound very dodgy.  It does all sound very scammy.

Not at all unusual these days!

If the account was only getting regular payments from the DWP or a private pension, the sudden appearance of thousands of pounds from an unknown private party can trigger money laundering algorithms and the the bank may make enquiries or even hold the funds until an explanation is forthcoming.

As for the transaction here, you cannot force the seller to give you the caravan and may well find yourself out of pocket for your expenses. 

noitsnotme

Ayr_Rage said:

noitsnotme said:

Pine_martens said:

The sellers mentioned the account we transferred the money into was their pension account and their bank had been in contact with them to query this. 

This part makes it all sound very dodgy.  It does all sound very scammy.

Not at all unusual these days!

If the account was only getting regular payments from the DWP or a private pension, the sudden appearance of thousands of pounds from an unknown private party can trigger money laundering algorithms and the the bank may make enquiries or even hold the funds until an explanation is forthcoming.

My mistake, I thought they meant they had paid it in to their pension (rather than an account that receives pension payments).

MeteredOut

Given what I've read, if I were the OP, I'd be happy if the end result was getting my money back, less costs.

Worst case: lost money - there is no guarantee the caravan even exists.
Bad case  options: accused of supporting money laundering, potential CIFAS marker against account, account closure, difficulty in opening accounts in future without additional checks

Pine_martens

Thank you all for your replies. I do hope we have not been scammed. I will try an keep conversation going to see what would resolve this situation and will keep you posted. Thank you.QrizB said:

Pine_martens said:

I purchased a caravan via eBay but not through the usual eBay process.
In short, the newbie eBayer's posted a caravan for sale stating no bidding and left a mobile number, which we left a voice message of our interest in purchasing it.

In shorter, you didn't buy "via eBay" at all but instead made an off-platform deal in violation of eBay's T&C.
You're lucky if you haven't been scammed out of your money.

Let's hope that we have not been scammed.

MeteredOut

noitsnotme said:

Pine_martens said:

The sellers mentioned the account we transferred the money into was their pension account and their bank had been in contact with them to query this. 

This part makes it all sound very dodgy.  It does all sound very scammy.

I wonder if "pension account" meant "the money their pension usually goes into" rather than an account somehow linked to a pension.