MSE News: Energy bills to rise 2% in October as new Price Cap is announced

Neil_Jones

jintyb said:

After all the press today I went on to BG and chose a cheaper tariff which was going to save me £45 a year. It then generated a bill based on estimated readings ( I have a smart meter) and increased my DD by £20 per month. I am currently £169 in credit. I wish I’d left well alone! After phoning they put my direct debit back to the previous amount but told me my smart meter wasn’t transmitting the readings. I feel like withdrawing my credit balance but I’m a bit scared to, any advice? 

Are you saying you were with British Gas and you've just changed the tariff you're on and you're still with British Gas?

£169 credit is probably in the ballpark of normal credit at this time of year - think of it as more of a contribution  towards your winter usage.

Issues with your smart meter are for the provider to fix, but in the meantime you should be able to submit readings manually.

QrizB

Qyburn said:

Vitor said:

Due to vested interests, red-tape and clueless politicians the 'plug in' or 'balcony' solar panels that are very popular in Germany, France etc. remain banned in Britain. An 800W system has a payback in 3 years, saving £200 to £300 off bills each year. There's plan to 'look at' these, apparantly...

They're not "banned", they just have to comply with the wiring regulations.

Just sayin' but I've not yet seen teams of government electricians going door to door to check everyone's domestic electrical systems for compliance ...

spot1034

jintyb said:

After all the press today I went on to BG and chose a cheaper tariff which was going to save me £45 a year. It then generated a bill based on estimated readings ( I have a smart meter) and increased my DD by £20 per month. I am currently £169 in credit. I wish I’d left well alone! After phoning they put my direct debit back to the previous amount but told me my smart meter wasn’t transmitting the readings. I feel like withdrawing my credit balance but I’m a bit scared to, any advice? 

If it's a cheaper tariff, it'll save you money. The amount of your direct debit is irrelevant as you will ultimately only pay for what you use.

Qyburn

Vitor said:

- they just have to comply with the wiring regulations.- 

Exactly my point, red-tape and foot-dragging by the industry means 'plug in' systems are banned in the UK

I don't know what evidence you have for either point?  What "red-tape", who's "foot-dragging"?

It sounds like you think when some invents something that doesn't comply with the regulations, there's an obligation on "someone" to change the regulations. Meanwhile if one of these system would benefit you, putting in suitable wiring is a fairly minor job.

QrizB

Qyburn said:

... putting in suitable wiring is a fairly minor job.

That does depend on exactly where your CU is located in your house.

My CU is adjacent to the north wall of my house, so running a dedicated circuit to the south (where I'd want to place a solar array) would mean running a circuit through the middle of my house (lots of disruption) or around the outside (20+ metres of SWA).

If my house was rotated by 180 degrees, it would only need 2 metres of cable straight through the wall. However rotating my house is non-trivial

Vitor

 -  What "red-tape", who's "foot-dragging"? -

There's ample red tape the inhibits "balcony" PV. The UK explicitly bans plug-in kits, DESNZ is running a safety review because current regs don’t allow them. In Germany, over a million systems run legally thanks to streamlined rules: 800 W cap, simple registration, VAT relief, and tenants’ right to install.

Here, BS 7671 and G98 treat an 800 W balcony kit the same as an 8 kW roof array, so needing full certification, DNO forms, no socket connection allowed. Add 20% VAT on supply-only kits, no grants and no tenant rights. Until the UK updates its rules, balcony solar remains blocked by red tape while Germany solved this years ago by creating a distinct standard for balcony systems

Qyburn

Vitor said:

Here, BS 7671 and G98 treat an 800 W balcony kit the same as an 8 kW roof array, 

8kW would need G.99 offer/acceptance. G.98 is limited to 16A per phase.  BS7671 prohibits connection of any generation on the load side of the circuit protective device. I'm sure you can understand why.  

Re "foot-dragging", what has been proposed, by whom, and who is "dragging their feet" in progressing it?

mmmmikey

Vitor said:

 -  What "red-tape", who's "foot-dragging"? -

There's ample red tape the inhibits "balcony" PV. The UK explicitly bans plug-in kits, DESNZ is running a safety review because current regs don’t allow them. In Germany, over a million systems run legally thanks to streamlined rules: 800 W cap, simple registration, VAT relief, and tenants’ right to install.

Here, BS 7671 and G98 treat an 800 W balcony kit the same as an 8 kW roof array, so needing full certification, DNO forms, no socket connection allowed. Add 20% VAT on supply-only kits, no grants and no tenant rights. Until the UK updates its rules, balcony solar remains blocked by red tape while Germany solved this years ago by creating a distinct standard for balcony systems

Domestic wiring conventions and standards are different in different countries so it doesn't automatically follow that something that is considered safe connected to a German domestic supply should be considered safe if connected to a UK supply. The housing market is also very different in Germany with many more people renting and tenants having different rights and that also makes a direct comparison invalid. 

This isn't just about electrical safety - there are considerations around tenant / landlord responsibilities in relation to the domestic wiring, safe installation on balconies and so on. 

Put it another way - if we had the same electrical systems as Germany and the same laws and systems around lettings and tenancies then I think your point would be valid. But we don't so I don't think your reasoning is sound.

That's not to say I don't support the introduction of these in the UK, but I think your views are somewhat naive and unrealistic in relation to the risks and issues that need to be considered in order to ensure that this is done safely and having properly considered the implications for the tenant / landlord relationship in a UK context.

MeteredOut

QrizB said:

Qyburn said:

... putting in suitable wiring is a fairly minor job.

That does depend on exactly where your CU is located in your house.

My CU is adjacent to the north wall of my house, so running a dedicated circuit to the south (where I'd want to place a solar array) would mean running a circuit through the middle of my house (lots of disruption) or around the outside (20+ metres of SWA).

If my house was rotated by 180 degrees, it would only need 2 metres of cable straight through the wall. However rotating my house is non-trivial

Have you tried moving the sun?

Eldi_Dos

MeteredOut said:

QrizB said:

Qyburn said:

... putting in suitable wiring is a fairly minor job.

That does depend on exactly where your CU is located in your house.

My CU is adjacent to the north wall of my house, so running a dedicated circuit to the south (where I'd want to place a solar array) would mean running a circuit through the middle of my house (lots of disruption) or around the outside (20+ metres of SWA).

If my house was rotated by 180 degrees, it would only need 2 metres of cable straight through the wall. However rotating my house is non-trivial

Have you tried moving the sun?

Or thought of mirrored fencing panels :