Roundabouts - Give way to the right if a vehicle has not yet entered?

Martyn1981

Wifey and I are having a fun argument/dispute about roundabouts.

I watch some of the Youtube dash camera vids, and have noticed a growing number of roundabout clips sent in by the cammer, which to me seem to be showing their error, not that of the car that's ahead of them.

Putting aside the many clips of cars pulling onto a roundabout in front of a vehicle that's already on it, I've noticed many seem to be angry with a vehicle entering from the left ahead of them, but crucially has entered the roundabout at the same time, or even before them.

This seems to happen a lot on mini-roundabouts, where the cammer can see the road ahead is clear, no junction or vehicles entering from the right, and approach at speed (20-30mph), but get annoyed at a car entering from the left ahead. Often that vehicle if turning right, will enter and drive slowly, or accelerate lightly, as mini-roundabouts are tight.

Obviously we need to take responsibility for safety, so we shouldn't pull out in front of a vehicle approaching at high speed from our right (but not yet on the roiundabout), but legally what is the position?

I've looked at Google, Highway Code and AI, and they all seem to confirm my thought that you give way to vehicles on the roundabout, but is it that simple?

Just seems to me, that these cammers are sending in clips that show them as the bad driver, not the innocent(?) vehicle ahead joining the roundabout first.

fatbelly

I enjoy the dash cam channels ( keep hoping to spot myself in them) but in most cases the cammer is looking for an incident to upload so the tactic seems to be: accelerate into it, brake late and sound your horn while shouting 'sh1tting peugeot' or similar.

I think the 'correct' answer is that vehicles on the roundabout take priority over those attempting to join.

However if it looks like someone with a dashcam is attempting to drive straight across at 80mph the pragmatic thing is to let them. So you do need to be aware of traffic as far as you can see it

Mildly_Miffed

This is driving lesson stuff.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code

Rules 185, 187, 188, and of course the catch-all in 147.

And, yes, anybody with a clue watches these dashcam videos in fascinated shock at just how badly many people drive and just how entitled they think they are.

As far as the legal position goes, most of those videos could easily see a LOT of careless/DWDC&A tickets handed out, both to the cammer and to the target of their ire.

oldagetraveller1

I remember, before the introduction of mini roundabouts, it was give way to traffic on the roundabout, to your right.

Now, as Mildly_Miffed posted, rule 185 states to give way to traffic approaching (not always already on)the roundabout from the right. I think approaching is the key word for mini roundabouts.

facade

You enter the roundabout at a Give Way line, so you have to give way to traffic approaching from the right.

It doesn't matter if they haven't got to the roundabout yet, if pulling out causes them to have to change speed or direction so as not to collide with you, then you are in the wrong.

(Legally, TSRGD 2016 says you give way to traffic circulating on the roundabout, but if pulling out in front of someone just about to enter the roundabout causes an accident.........)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/made

Car_54

facade said:

Legally, you enter the roundabout at a Give Way line, so you have to give way to traffic approaching from the right.

It doesn't matter if they haven't got to the roundabout yet, if pulling out causes them to have to change speed or direction so as not to collide with you, then you are in the wrong.

 

Exactly. The HC (Rule 185) actually says "Give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights". 

Mildly_Miffed

oldagetraveller1 said:

I remember, before the introduction of mini roundabouts...

The first mini roundabout in the UK was installed in 1968, 57 years ago.

Roundabout priority rules are unchanged in that period.

JosephK

Practically, the safest thing to do approaching roundabouts is to assume other drivers will do something stupid such as not indicating or not correctly giving way. Most will be OK but there are idiots about. 

A lot of mini-roundabouts are not especially clear or well marked, particularly if the driver is unfamiliar with that road. 

Mildly_Miffed

JosephK said:

Practically, the safest thing to do approaching roundabouts is to assume other drivers will do something stupid such as not indicating or not correctly giving way.

That's advice that applies to all areas of driving...

Martyn1981

I've actually reminded myself of a large(r) roundabout where it was quite common for folk to get beeped at by a car joining from their right. Here's a pic of the roundabout



Approaching the roundabout from Marlborough Road, the view to the right down Albany Road is restricted. You can see that nobody is on the roundabout, nor at the line (in Albany Road), but as you pull out, it was common to have a car enter from Albany Road at 30mph, see you side on, and blast the horn.

The problem/issue, is that the traffic approaching from Albany Road has an excellent view of the road ahead, so can see that nothing is coming (from the right, but actually sort of ahead), and don't even slow down before entering the roundabout.

Street view here of view at junction joining from Marlborough Road:



The problem was mostly sorted with 20mph limit, and road calming on Albany Road, prior to the 20mph general speed limit coming in.

People who knew the junction would roll out slowly, ready to stop, and folk joining from Albany (who weren't prats) would allow for the possibility.

Fun times.

uknick

Whilst we're talking about roundabouts, is it just where I live people approach a roundabout from the 6 o'clock position in the left lane and then exit at the 3 o'clock position still in the left lane?  All without indicating.

There are no road signs to indicate this is how the roundabout should be driven.