Returned modem but still being charged by ISP

jungle_jeff

Hello! On 9th August I ended my 18 month contract with Pop Telecom and I have signed up with Virgin Media. 

Pop Telecom told me I needed to return my router within 14 days, which I sent recorded delivery the same day.

On 16th August Pop Telecom sent me an invoice for £79.99 for an unreturned router stating that a direct debt to this amount would be taken from my account on 24th August.

I have contacted them and explained the router has been returned, in line with their online T&C and my contract but they say they still need to charge me until they have been able to confirm with their warehouse team that my router has been received because, in their words, "lots of people say they send it when they don't". The taking of this payment will happen until they have confirmed they have it.

Judging Pop Telecom by my existing experience, I am sceptical at best that if I pay this money I will ever see it again. There doesn't seem to be any incentive for them to identify my router from presumably dozens of returned ones and refund my £80 if they have already charged me for it.

I have had a couple of back and forth emails with their Customer Service team so far this week and highlighted that the approach they are taking is not in their terms and conditions, that there is no defined time period or process for them to locate my router in the warehouse and to refund me but they say they're taking the money anyway. I've explained this is going to cause me hardship as it's £80 I don't have but they don't seem bothered.

I've also said clearly in my emails that they are not authorised to take £80 by direct debit from my account and to correct the error with the invoice but they have so far refused to do so.

The Direct Debit guarantee would give me a refund for an "error" but not for a "dispute" which is what I fear the bank would term this as. Short of cancelling my direct debit to Pop Telecom before Saturday (which I am loathe to do as I fear there will be wider credit related repercussions) do I have any options here? It feels grossly unfair for Pop to move the goalposts and just arbitrarily charge this money.

I do have a copy of the receipt of me sending the modem recorded delivery from the Post Office (and a picture of me having packed the modem as I feared they might be a nightmare from previous experience) but can't provide the receipt until I get home from holiday on Saturday, which I fer will be too late as the money will have come out.

Any help appreciated as it's driving me potty on holiday!

HampshireH

If it's been sent recorded can't you track it with the reference you were given. Has it been delivered?

jungle_jeff

Thank for replying.. I can track it but I can't get the tracking number til I return from holiday on Saturday. Irrespective, they've said that me sending it isn't enough - they have to confirm its presence in their warehouse.

victor2

I don't think you can do much without the tracking number. But if that shows it as delivered, then that should be all the proof you need. Royal Mail have been known to lose tracked items!

retiredbanker1

Cancel the direct debit?

jungle_jeff

retiredbanker1 said:

Cancel the direct debit?

I'd wondered this but suspect this will have additional complications such as interfering with my credit record and I also need to still pay my final bill by DD (or get charged for extra for paying some other way). 

Swipe

If it goes out, you could try asking your bank to reverse it under the direct debit guarantee showing them proof that you have returned it. They should refund you straightaway if you tell them it was in error. Whether or not the ISP would go to the trouble of contesting it and trying again is another matter.

If they are too slow or don't have a proper mechanism of identifying your router, that's their problem. Most decent ISPs give you 60 days to return a router after you've left before charging you. If it is not in their terms and conditions, they won't have a leg to stand on. Any ISP worth its salt, would have your router's serial number, which is printed on a label on the box, linked to your account and could enter it on their system as returned when the postman delivered it to them. That's how it works everywhere else. 

I wouldn't fret about never getting the money returned as you can easily reclaim it via the small claims court if you have proof that you returned it. Even the threat of it will prompt them into a refund as they know they will lose and have to pay your small claims fees.

Irving7

I’ve just had a very similar experience with Pop Telecom. In my case my account showed a £79.99 charge for “NON RETURNED EQUIPMENT – TV Package Box” even though Pop don’t even offer TV services and the only kit I ever had was the router. I was also told it was a “system-generated” charge that would only be removed once their warehouse confirmed receipt, which sounds exactly like what you’ve described.

It seems like Pop have started adding these charges as standard and then leaving customers to chase them off the account, which is both misleading and unfair.

I’ve started a separate thread with my full experience here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6625972/pop-telecom-79-99-tv-box-charge-despite-no-tv-service-and-incorrect-billing#latest

bucksboomer

Irving7 said:

I’ve just had a very similar experience with Pop Telecom. In my case my account showed a £79.99 charge for “NON RETURNED EQUIPMENT – TV Package Box” even though Pop don’t even offer TV services and the only kit I ever had was the router. I was also told it was a “system-generated” charge that would only be removed once their warehouse confirmed receipt, which sounds exactly like what you’ve described.

It seems like Pop have started adding these charges as standard and then leaving customers to chase them off the account, which is both misleading and unfair.

I’ve started a separate thread with my full experience here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6625972/pop-telecom-79-99-tv-box-charge-despite-no-tv-service-and-incorrect-billing#latest

It would be helpful if you would kindly post any messages or screenshots where they say they routinely system generate a charge as this confirms that they create fake charges not based on your returning or not returning but simply upon your cancellation.  This would no double help others taking them to Court or to an ombudsman.

What Pop Telecom (daft name) should realise is that the mere fact that they want the router back is enough to make customers like me never want to deal with them.  We usually pay for a router when we order so what is this nonsense, not only a cost of postage but ransom.

I have yet to find an ISP router that is any good, I always end up swapping them for an old router based on OpenWRT firmware.  What I never see is an optional charge for the router along with a "use your own router".

Obviously cancel direct debit and share your experience here and on other sites, that is the only way to change this sort of behaviour.

Thanks for the heads up on Pop Telecom, another company to add to the supplier ban list.

dex6112

Hello,

Same thing happened to me. This is what they said when I asked them to cancel it. It was "typed" in about 2 seconds so they've obviously set up a keyboard shortcut to post it as a standard reply.

"We would like to extend our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this situation may have caused. We fully understand how frustrating these matters can be, and we appreciate your patience and understanding as we work to resolve them.

Kindly note that this charge is generated automatically by our system if the equipment is not received shortly after the service cease/transfer date. Unfortunately, we are unable to override this process, as it is in place to ensure consistency and accountability across all accounts.

We fully acknowledge the concern this may have caused and would like to reassure you that the fee is fully refundable once the equipment has been received. Due to past instances where customers did not return their equipment, this automated charge was implemented to protect our service integrity and ensure fairness for all customers. Please be assured that we are not withholding the refund, the fee will be returned in full following confirmation of receipt.

Refunds (for returned equipment) are typically processed within 28 days. This timeframe is necessary to allow for validation (of the return), reconciliation of account records, and secure processing through banking systems. While we understand the desire for a quicker resolution, we regret that this process cannot be expedited."

Pointing out that the return was not yet due as the contract was still live was like talking to a brick wall. I have posted the router back, cancelled the DD, and told them that I will tell them when the tracking says it is delivered. When they cancel the £79.99 charge and issue a correct final bill I will reinstate the DD for them to take payment.

Dreadful company. Don't let any of your friends go with them.

qcaroo

Just leaving my 2p worth here: I managed my father's account with PopT as I had POA to do so. He was billed for 130+ calls to 123 which occurred at random hours, all for exactly 60/120/180 seconds. Despite the house being unoccupied for the last 5 years as he was in a care home.
I changed to BT and a week later my father passed away, in June. They sent him a final bill. Then another one for good measure saying he owed them £0.00 he had to pay immediately! 
Finally I've seen a request to return router within 'next 14 days' or else be charged for it. The irony being that it's sent from the Loyalty team at PopT.
I don't really understand how they're still in business with the way they treat their customers.