UC query

Spicedpumpkin

Hello

Just checking this calculation I am awaiting my first statement. We basically moved into a HA property (from private) the day we applied for UC on a migration, and a new area I was on mixed IR ESA and CB ESA and had a lot of premiums added so was on ESA £328 per week, The new amount seems so much less.

The private rent in London was 300 a week and this rent is a lot lower being social 123.49 a week in a different area.

Moving from ESA support on migration Mixed age couple One on DLA and older on PIP high both .No children HA 2 bedroom weekly rent .No free weeks rent £123.49 per week Carer duties
Capitol under 6000

Not sure if its more complicated as I moved in the day we applied for UC at a lower rent price

Couple allowance over 25                            628.10
Rent HA 123.49 per week  x 52 / 12           (535.12)
14% bedroom tax  housing element            460.20
Carer Element                                             201.68
LCWRA                                                       423.27
SDP TP   couples                                         483.88

Equals                                                      2197.13
MINUS                                     NS ESA   609.05
State Pension                                          997.75

EQUALS UC                                           590.33 
(Then pay landlord the full rent per week 123.49 x4  equals 493.96)

 thought it was if you were on less on UC they topped it up more. Even just adding up the monthly ESA 1312 and pension it was 2233

Thanks

Newcad

Was this a 'Managed Migration' after you got a migration notice?

Or was it a 'Natural Migration' because you moved house?

The rules are different depending on which one it was.

Moving house on the same day as a Managed Migration would be a new one on me.

Spicedpumpkin

Newcad said:

Was this a 'Managed Migration' after you got a migration notice?

Or was it a 'Natural Migration' because you moved house?

The rules are different depending on which one it was.

Moving house on the same day as a Managed Migration would be a new one on me.

Managed Migration
We had a letter to do go over to UC and then we moved to a different area and applied for UC on the same day.

Newcad

" The same day" .Like I say that's a new one to me and somewhat unusual.

Unfortunately as it is unusual I'm not at all sure how UC will handle it.

8dayweek

Ick, this feels like it’s a Natural Migration (UC claim required due to CofC) but with the added confusion of a Migration Notice. 

FWIW, I think it’ll be treated as though it’s a Managed Migration (due to Migration Notice) but could potentially not factor in your prior benefits entirely as your Housing Benefit claim will / may have already ended in your old area. 

It’ll go one of two ways - they’ll use your prior HB award coupled with ESA rates etc when calculating Transitional Protection and it’ll be favourable (owing to prior HB being higher than Housing Element in UC), or if Housing Benefit will is already closed then it’ll only be your ESA award that’s used to determine if any Transitional Protection is due - which may be unfavourable (owing to difference between ESA only vs. UC with Housing Element being higher). 

As a rule, UC look at the legacy benefits in place the day before you claimed UC and compare that to your indicative UC award - so it’s going to depend quite heavily on whether your HB claim is closed IMHO. 

Spicedpumpkin

8dayweek said:

Ick, this feels like it’s a Natural Migration (UC claim required due to CofC) but with the added confusion of a Migration Notice. 

FWIW, I think it’ll be treated as though it’s a Managed Migration (due to Migration Notice) but could potentially not factor in your prior benefits entirely as your Housing Benefit claim will / may have already ended in your old area. 

It’ll go one of two ways - they’ll use your prior HB award coupled with ESA rates etc when calculating Transitional Protection and it’ll be favourable (owing to prior HB being higher than Housing Element in UC), or if Housing Benefit will is already closed then it’ll only be your ESA award that’s used to determine if any Transitional Protection is due - which may be unfavourable (owing to difference between ESA only vs. UC with Housing Element being higher). 

As a rule, UC look at the legacy benefits in place the day before you claimed UC and compare that to your indicative UC award - so it’s going to depend quite heavily on whether your HB claim is closed IMHO. 

Thanks for the detailed answer.
I thought it was a complicated one on the TP front as such
As I said the London rent was 300 a week and the new social housing is 123 a week , in the totally new area. Obviously we had to take the social housing regardless
The HB claim in London was open the day before on the 1st August. As I applied for UC on the 2nd August.
And then after I had applied I let the HB know in the other area we had moved out of the area

I hope is favourable to be honest as it would be a lot to loose

I get the statement next week

Many thanks

Spicedpumpkin

As a side note even the ESA I was on was high at 1312 a month and then my partners pension at 921 .
 

8dayweek

The Transitional Protection calculation is quite crude in so far as it doesn’t look at the accuracy of the prior benefits per se - just the amounts. 

As in - using wholly made up figures…  

01/08/25 = ESA is £800pcm and Housing Benefit is £1000 pcm (Total £1800 pcm).  

02/08/25 = UC estimated as £1600 pcm, therefore Transitional Protection would be £200 pcm (Total £1800 pcm). 

I think it’s likely to include the HB figure as it was the day before the UC claim, but I have a small nagging feeling in the back of my mind that some legacy benefits (such as HB) had a weird thing where they’re awarded up to the end of the last full “benefit week” rather than the exact end date or date of change (but that might be a completely outdated line of thought now). 

Spicedpumpkin

8dayweek said:

The Transitional Protection calculation is quite crude in so far as it doesn’t look at the accuracy of the prior benefits per se - just the amounts. 

As in - using wholly made up figures…  

01/08/25 = ESA is £800pcm and Housing Benefit is £1000 pcm (Total £1800 pcm).  

02/08/25 = UC estimated as £1600 pcm, therefore Transitional Protection would be £200 pcm (Total £1800 pcm). 

I think it’s likely to include the HB figure as it was the day before the UC claim, but I have a small nagging feeling in the back of my mind that some legacy benefits (such as HB) had a weird thing where they’re awarded up to the end of the last full “benefit week” rather than the exact end date or date of change (but that might be a completely outdated line of thought now). 

I appreciate all your input.

I wondered how it work with rental change esp....as it was private to social and such a massive difference

I think we shall see next week and hope for the best really. I was trying to see what I should get if anyone knew and what the statement may read....and so I had a heads up to put in a query with the correct information
Thanks again

HillStreetBlues

8dayweek said:

The Transitional Protection calculation is quite crude in so far as it doesn’t look at the accuracy of the prior benefits per se - just the amounts. 

As in - using wholly made up figures…  

01/08/25 = ESA is £800pcm and Housing Benefit is £1000 pcm (Total £1800 pcm).  

02/08/25 = UC estimated as £1600 pcm, therefore Transitional Protection would be £200 pcm (Total £1800 pcm). 

It's slightly different. TP is worked out by  "Indicative UC Amount" & "legacy benefit amount"
The "Indicative UC Amount" is calculated based on what the UC claim would have been the day before the claim, with your example both would be dated 01/08/25

EDIT link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-the-transitional-element-is-calculated-when-you-move-to-universal-credit

EDIT2 The Gov link about is incorrect and it's on the actual migration day. (Thought something seemed wrong, should have gone direct to the regs!)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/regulation/54

8dayweek

HillStreetBlues said:

8dayweek said:

The Transitional Protection calculation is quite crude in so far as it doesn’t look at the accuracy of the prior benefits per se - just the amounts. 

As in - using wholly made up figures…  

01/08/25 = ESA is £800pcm and Housing Benefit is £1000 pcm (Total £1800 pcm).  

02/08/25 = UC estimated as £1600 pcm, therefore Transitional Protection would be £200 pcm (Total £1800 pcm). 

It's slightly different. TP is worked out by  "Indicative UC Amount" & "legacy benefit amount"
The "Indicative UC Amount" is calculated based on what the UC claim would have been the day before the claim, with your example both would be dated 01/08/25

EDIT link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-the-transitional-element-is-calculated-when-you-move-to-universal-credit

Interesting! Because on the UC system the indicative UC award is just the individual UC elements the system determines you’ll be awarded within your UC claim based on the details you’ve entered on the UC declaration.

(Similar to how a New Claim Advance is roughly the sum total of the UC award the system thinks you’ll get before deductions).