New speed cameras on the A40

ruddin1

I haven't driven on the A40 for a while. I entered the A40 via the Marylebone Flyover, and after driving slowly around 30mph (to avoid the speed camera fine) I entered the dual carriageway. I sped up to potentially around 40mph and exited around the Westway roundabout (exiting via A320) towards Westfield Shepherds Bush. On my return trip I did something similar only slowing down once I saw the speed cameras. However, after finding it peculiar that all the other cars were driving very slow despite no speed cameras I looked into the road further and found out that the A40 has new types of speed cameras where they measure time it took to get from point A to point B and then calculate your average speed. Apparently there are multiple cameras and multiple sections where they have installed this around my journey point. I am currently freaking out about potentially receiving multiple speeding tickets, fines and points. Can someone clarify whether I would get one ticket or multiple tickets for the distance from Marylebone Flyover to Westfield (exiting via A320) and vice versa?

flaneurs_lobster

So you knew that the whole of your journey was on roads with a 30 limit but chose to do 40(ish) anyway because you couldn't see any cameras?

Pretty sure that's a penalty per sector.

MattMattMattUK

Average speed cameras are per sectors drive through five sectors, get five penalties, how many are on that section I do not know. But likely more than one.

ruddin1

Unfortunately yes. But as for the penalty per sector, because it was the same stretch of road in a short space of time, would that be taken into consideration and treated as one fine/one speeding incident? This is also literally the first time I have been caught with a speeding violation though so would that be taken into consideration?

MattMattMattUK

ruddin1 said:

Unfortunately yes. But as for the penalty per sector, because it was the same stretch of road in a short space of time, would that be taken into consideration and treated as one fine/one speeding incident? 

Not for the points and fines.

ruddin1 said:

This is also literally the first time I have been caught with a speeding violation though so would that be taken into consideration?

Again no, not for the points and fines.

If you were caught going through enough sectors to reach a totting up ban then you could plead with a judge that it was a few moments of total stupidity and could prove "exceptional hardship" which usually means inability to get to and from critical medical care for yourself of a dependent, occasionally loss of employment will be considered then you could avoid a ban, otherwise it is six months for the first totting up ban.

If you went through multiple sectors but not enough to get a totting up ban then you just need to not speed going forward and you should be fine.

If you were doing 40MPH then that is three points per instance, if you were doing 43 then that is 4-6 points per instance. 

ruddin1

As far as I can see i went through potentially 3 sectors twice (going to journey and return journey) can't potentially account for the average speed but potentially between 35 to 45 mph. So treating them all individually even though it's one road could add up the points and fines and hence potentially a temp ban on my licence? 

TooManyPoints

If you do get multiple penalties, you could ask he police if they would consider combining some or all of them (though note this does not alter your duty to respond to each request for driver’s details within 28 days).

If they refuse (which is more likely than not) there are two approaches you can consider. Both of these will involve turning down any out-of-court offers the police may make (a course or fixed penalty) and having the matters heard in court: 

The first is to have them seen as one continuous offence (though you could only combine the offences which were committed when travelling in the same direction). To succeed with this you must convince the court that you exceeded the speed limit once and maintained a speed in excess of the limit for the entire stretch. If you succeed you will be sentenced for one offence (a fine, “victim surcharge”, prosecution costs, and endorsement and penalty points). This is the most beneficial outcome. 

If that is unsuccessful, the alternative is to ask the court to consider that although the offences were separate, they were committed “on the same occasion”. Similarly, you could only claim this for the offences when you were travelling in the same direction. If this is successful you will see a fine, surcharge and an endorsement for each offence but only one lot of prosecution costs and one lot of penalty points (for the most serious if the offences attract different penalty points).

In both of these the decision is entirely a matter for the court and they may go against both your applications. You should also bear in mind that even the best option (the first) will be considerably more expensive than (say) a course and two fixed penalties.

You need to see what offences, if any, are alleged before you can make an informed decision.

ruddin1

Thanks @TooManyPoints. At this moment I'm overthinking things and probably panicking a little as this has happened unnecessarily carelessly and first potential real offence. The fines and points I can handle. The potential driving ban is my main concern as this would cause a lot of unnecessary hardship. Will get back once I receive letter

Mildly_Miffed

TooManyPoints said:

If you do get multiple penalties, you could ask he police if they would consider combine some or all of them 

There may be an argument for this if your average speed over the entire section is in excess of the limit.

If it isn't, then - nope.

Average speed cameras are not new. They have been in place around the country for many, many years - the first were installed in 1999. The legal arguments over whether multiple recorded infringements are one case or several has long since been resolved.

"First offence" - well, you'll probably be offered a speed awareness course for one of them...

I'm just going to put this here, from last October...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JYLrLp3QAZcd7m169

born_again

ruddin1 said:

I haven't driven on the A40 for a while. I entered the A40 via the Marylebone Flyover, and after driving slowly around 30mph (to avoid the speed camera fine) I entered the dual carriageway. I sped up to potentially around 40mph and exited around the Westway roundabout (exiting via A320) towards Westfield Shepherds Bush. On my return trip I did something similar only slowing down once I saw the speed cameras. However, after finding it peculiar that all the other cars were driving very slow despite no speed cameras I looked into the road further and found out that the A40 has new types of speed cameras where they measure time it took to get from point A to point B and then calculate your average speed. Apparently there are multiple cameras and multiple sections where they have installed this around my journey point. I am currently freaking out about potentially receiving multiple speeding tickets, fines and points. Can someone clarify whether I would get one ticket or multiple tickets for the distance from Marylebone Flyover to Westfield (exiting via A320) and vice versa?

Given the change to over 70' having to have mandatory eye tests. Perhaps it should be mandatory for anyone caught speeding as well, given they cant see yellow boxes & read the signs  that say Average speed zone..🤣

Frozen_up_north

Unfortunately speed limit changes are often at the whim of councils. Where I live there is a 30 mph through a village, which was extended for around half a mile past fields (the cynic in me thinks it was due to a councillor hosting a gymkhana in one of the fields once a year). The speed limit then increases to 50 where there are quite a lot of houses, then drops to 40 at the next village!
Non of these 30/50/40 speed limit changes make any sense, but are a lucrative source of employment for the speed camera operators who are even there after dark!
The best aid to avoiding being caught out is by using Waze, a free satnav app for a smartphone, which beeps and flashes if you exceed the speed limit. Users can input speed camera locations, speed limit errors, etc. the temporary police cameras appear instantly, changes to speed limits take perhaps a couple of weeks.
Waze was even recommended by the instructor on my speed awareness course (caught before using Waze).
Waze doesn’t use the phone camera, so doesn’t help with motorway variable speed limits.