Family member refuses to complete IHT403

hullensien

Hi.
Looking for a bit of advice please. I am helping my partner (executor of her fathers will) pull the financials together. As it stands the estate is under the £325k threshold. However we have recently discovered her father made some substantial gifts to two other family members within the last 3 years. It is quite possible that the value of these gifts will push the estate value above the threshold - they include  classic cars, watches, shotguns . They are both refusing to complete IHT403. At the time he made the gifts he was resident in France but he moved back to the UK early 2024 before sadly passing away this year. One family member lives in Germany and the other lives in the UK.

So…………..

Are the gifts relevant to the estate as they were made when he was resident in another country?

If they are relevant what do i do about their refusal to complete the IHT403?

thanks in advance

MattMattMattUK

hullensien said:

Hi.
Looking for a bit of advice please. I am helping my partner (executor of her fathers will) pull the financials together. As it stands the estate is under the £325k threshold. However we have recently discovered her father made some substantial gifts to two other family members within the last 3 years. It is quite possible that the value of these gifts will push the estate value above the threshold - they include  classic cars, watches, shotguns . They are both refusing to complete IHT403. At the time he made the gifts he was resident in France but he moved back to the UK early 2024 before sadly passing away this year. One family member lives in Germany and the other lives in the UK.

So…………..

Are the gifts relevant to the estate as they were made when he was resident in another country?

Yes, they must be declared. 

hullensien said:

If they are relevant what do i do about their refusal to complete the IHT403?

The recipient does not sign the form, the Executor does. 

hullensien said:

thanks in advance

Remember that the estate pays the tax on those, not the recipients, unless there are not enough funds in the estate to fund the tax due. 

Brie

Is the recipient of the gifts also a beneficiary of the will?  I would then point out to them that the gifts received, being part of the estate, will be taken into account when paying out anything owed.

Sorry for your and your OH's loss.  And sorry that a family member is making things more difficult than they have to be.  

Keep_pedalling

It is the executors who need to fill in IHT 403 not the recipients of the gifts. As long as the gifts did not exceed £325k it is the estate who is responsible for paying any IHT in full. 

What was his marrital status? If he was a widower and inherited his wife’s estate then you also have the transferable NRB that can be claimed which will take his NRB exemptions to £650k. If that is the case then an IHT return will not be required if his estate (including gifts) is below that value.

hullensien

MattMattMattUK said:

hullensien said:

Hi.
Looking for a bit of advice please. I am helping my partner (executor of her fathers will) pull the financials together. As it stands the estate is under the £325k threshold. However we have recently discovered her father made some substantial gifts to two other family members within the last 3 years. It is quite possible that the value of these gifts will push the estate value above the threshold - they include  classic cars, watches, shotguns . They are both refusing to complete IHT403. At the time he made the gifts he was resident in France but he moved back to the UK early 2024 before sadly passing away this year. One family member lives in Germany and the other lives in the UK.

So…………..

Are the gifts relevant to the estate as they were made when he was resident in another country?

Yes, they must be declared. 

hullensien said:

If they are relevant what do i do about their refusal to complete the IHT403?

The recipient does not sign the form, the Executor does. 

hullensien said:

thanks in advance

Remember that the estate pays the tax on those, not the recipients, unless there are not enough funds in the estate to fund the tax due. 

Thanks for the quick reply Matt. the recipients refuse to disclose the total number of gifts made or their values. They are being very obstructive - so the executor can’t complete the form
They are not beneficiaries - so for example the total value of the estate including the gifts meant that the remainder of the estate was wiped out in tax liabilities the the recipients would be “as is” and the beneficiaries would get nothing? A bit extreme but possible?

hullensien

Brie said:

Is the recipient of the gifts also a beneficiary of the will?  I would then point out to them that the gifts received, being part of the estate, will be taken into account when paying out anything owed.

Sorry for your and your OH's loss.  And sorry that a family member is making things more difficult than they have to be.  

Hi - thanks for your support
 They are not beneficiaries. the problem is without info we can’t complete the IHT403 - should i refer them to probate or the HMRC?

MattMattMattUK

hullensien said:

MattMattMattUK said:

hullensien said:

Hi.
Looking for a bit of advice please. I am helping my partner (executor of her fathers will) pull the financials together. As it stands the estate is under the £325k threshold. However we have recently discovered her father made some substantial gifts to two other family members within the last 3 years. It is quite possible that the value of these gifts will push the estate value above the threshold - they include  classic cars, watches, shotguns . They are both refusing to complete IHT403. At the time he made the gifts he was resident in France but he moved back to the UK early 2024 before sadly passing away this year. One family member lives in Germany and the other lives in the UK.

So…………..

Are the gifts relevant to the estate as they were made when he was resident in another country?

Yes, they must be declared. 

hullensien said:

If they are relevant what do i do about their refusal to complete the IHT403?

The recipient does not sign the form, the Executor does. 

hullensien said:

thanks in advance

Remember that the estate pays the tax on those, not the recipients, unless there are not enough funds in the estate to fund the tax due. 

Thanks for the quick reply Matt. the recipients refuse to disclose the total number of gifts made or their values. They are being very obstructive - so the executor can’t complete the form

The executor would need to look through the records that the estate has, ascribe a value to things and use that information.

hullensien said:

MattMattMattUK said:

hullensien said:

Hi.
Looking for a bit of advice please. I am helping my partner (executor of her fathers will) pull the financials together. As it stands the estate is under the £325k threshold. However we have recently discovered her father made some substantial gifts to two other family members within the last 3 years. It is quite possible that the value of these gifts will push the estate value above the threshold - they include  classic cars, watches, shotguns . They are both refusing to complete IHT403. At the time he made the gifts he was resident in France but he moved back to the UK early 2024 before sadly passing away this year. One family member lives in Germany and the other lives in the UK.

So…………..

Are the gifts relevant to the estate as they were made when he was resident in another country?

Yes, they must be declared. 

hullensien said:

If they are relevant what do i do about their refusal to complete the IHT403?

The recipient does not sign the form, the Executor does. 

hullensien said:

thanks in advance

Remember that the estate pays the tax on those, not the recipients, unless there are not enough funds in the estate to fund the tax due. 

They are not beneficiaries - so for example the total value of the estate including the gifts meant that the remainder of the estate was wiped out in tax liabilities the the recipients would be “as is” and the beneficiaries would get nothing? A bit extreme but possible?

They are beneficiaries as far as the law is concerned because the gifts were received in the seven year window. Yes, if the IHT bill was the same as the rest of the estate then the other beneficiaries would get nothing, if there is a shortfall then HMRC would go after the recipients for the unpaid IHT. Totally possible for it to happen, yes.

Brie

Can you make guessimates about the values based on what has sold recently on various online sites?  Don't go by what is up for sale on ebay or wherever as those prices may never be realised.  i.e. I'm dealing with an estate and there's a set of china that is similar (same pattern but our set has more pieces) on ebay asking for about £5k.  The only set sold in the last 5 years went for £20.  

Keep_pedalling

hullensien said:

Brie said:

Is the recipient of the gifts also a beneficiary of the will?  I would then point out to them that the gifts received, being part of the estate, will be taken into account when paying out anything owed.

Sorry for your and your OH's loss.  And sorry that a family member is making things more difficult than they have to be.  

Hi - thanks for your support
 They are not beneficiaries. the problem is without info we can’t complete the IHT403 - should i refer them to probate or the HMRC?

You can’t compel them to give you this information, but if you know exactly what was given away it should not be too difficult to come up with an estimation of the value of these items.

Could you answer the question about his marital status please? Aslo did he own a house either in France or when he moved back to the UK?  

cheshireperson

If you can’t do an estimate of the gifts , I would think a solicitor’s letter to them would be the next step . What an awful situation. 

hullensien

Keep_pedalling said:

hullensien said:

Brie said:

Is the recipient of the gifts also a beneficiary of the will?  I would then point out to them that the gifts received, being part of the estate, will be taken into account when paying out anything owed.

Sorry for your and your OH's loss.  And sorry that a family member is making things more difficult than they have to be.  

Hi - thanks for your support
 They are not beneficiaries. the problem is without info we can’t complete the IHT403 - should i refer them to probate or the HMRC?

You can’t compel them to give you this information, but if you know exactly what was given away it should not be too difficult to come up with an estimation of the value of these items.

Could you answer the question about his marital status please? Aslo did he own a house either in France or when he moved back to the UK?  

Hi - he was divorced in 2008 and then she died in 2011. He was in a care home in france but he had a legal guardian put in place to look after his affairs - she put the house up for sale to pay for his care home fees - these were paid and the residue transferred to his UK account. The house was sold before he came back to the UK - he lived with his daughter so didn’t own a property or any other tangible assets other than what was gifted when he was in France