Which Motability car ?

knightstyle

The HR-V gear box is not a normal CVT.  Basically it does not have a clutch, it always starts on electric motor and goes onto 'normal' drive from the 1.6 petrol engine when either the battery is low or a certain speed is reached, I think about 25mph.
It is very smooth but it is strange at first as it seems the engine revs do not match the speed unlike a normal car.  One thing I miss is the rev counter but I may just be old fashioned.

WellKnownSid

knightstyle said:

The HR-V gear box is not a normal CVT.  Basically it does not have a clutch, it always starts on electric motor and goes onto 'normal' drive from the 1.6 petrol engine when either the battery is low or a certain speed is reached, I think about 25mph.
It is very smooth but it is strange at first as it seems the engine revs do not match the speed unlike a normal car.  One thing I miss is the rev counter but I may just be old fashioned.

Sounds like the Renault system.  As you say - no clutch - so nothing to wear out.

In the Renault system the software has been set up to make it feel like you are driving a torque converter automatic driven by a much larger petrol engine, even down to the behaviour of a virtual one-way clutch.

I believe a rev counter would be pointless in a hybrid.  A power meter makes a whole lot more sense.

Press start.  RPM zero.
Select drive.  RPM zero.
Pull away.  RPM zero.
Slow for traffic.  RPM 2,000
Stop for traffic.  RPM rises to 2,800.
Pull away.  RPM zero.
Go up a hill.  RPM 4,000 revs. RPM 2,400
Drive on the flat at a constant speed.  RPM zero.  RPM 2,400.  RPM 2,800.  RPM zero.  RPM 2,000.  RPM zero, RPM 2,400.  RPM 1,750.  RPM zero.  RPM 2,975.  RPM zero, RPM 2,400.
Go down a hill.  RPM zero.

Goudy

MouldyOldDough said:

knightstyle said:

We have an HR-V on Motability, had it for 6 weeks and very happy with it. the hybrid is great, starts on electric and then goes to petrol engine but the engine often runs when starting and at rest, kind of off putting but gives 60mpg around town. Depends on battery charge level.
I really like the way the back seats fold up, great for wheel chair dog bed etc. But I don't think we could get a wheel chair in the boot while the back seats are in use. The floor is too high although there is a small storage space under it.
As others said go for a practice, we had the honda demo car for almost a full day when looking.  Plus make sure you can get service etc. locally. Our local Ford garage has closed and is now MG so we would have to go a long way if we had got a puma which was on our list.

Thanks - yes we have a Honda dealers, two miles away 

It looks like it's going to be a Jazz or HR-V

Either can be delivered within 6 weeks 

Just slightly concerned about the gearbox (CVT) and physical size (wife likes small cars)

Modern E-CVT gearboxes fitted to most full hybrids work slightly differently.
For a start you don't usually get a full set of possible ratios to take the car from 0 to top speed, it doesn't need them.

Lower gearing is usually direct EV drive, one of the electric motors is connected to the output of the gearbox to drive the wheels. (this motor is usually also used to regen the traction battery when braking and if you reverse the polarity, you get a reverse gear).

So every time you pull away (or reverse) it'll utilise the electric motor up to a certain speed.
It may or may not run the engine, it may just run the engine to charge the battery if the level is low.
But the engine won't be transmitting power through the gearbox until later when the car gains speed.
The direct drive electric motor will do that.

Once the car is up to speed, the gear ratios take over.
These are ran by a combination of the ICE and another electric motor.

As a bonus, when the ICE runs, either to just charge the traction battery or work in combination with the electric motor to power the car, it doesn't need to run at peak power.
It will almost certain not run a normal Otto cycle but a more efficient (mock) Atkinson cycle which prioritises the expansion stroke over compression stoke. 

Put simply, the EV motor handles what we might think of as all the lower ratios. (with or without the engine running to produce electricity).

Just to make things more understandable, the direct EV drive handles those what you might think of as first and say second. (and reverse).
The gearbox then handles all the higher ratios, what you might think of as third, fourth and fifth and maybe sixth.
(they aren't actual set gears, just variable ratios between input and output though) 

As the gear ratios don't have to handle every possible ratio from 0 to top speed, it's often smaller and lighter, doesn't sap the same sort of power, particularly when the engine is less efficient (pulling away).

Also as it doesn't need to have all ratios to move if from 0 to top speed, it be fitted with a better spread of ratios for just the conditions it operates in, so it's more efficient then as well.
Those tighter concentrated ratios can match the motor to the road speed more efficiently in less space/weight.
 

MouldyOldDough

Can you drive the HR-V for many miles on battery alone - or is the battery more of an assistance ?

knightstyle

Sometimes when we start the petrol engine comes on immediately and sometimes it takes a mile or so before it comes on, only notice it if the radio is off as the engine is so quiet. It all depends on the state of charge.

Goudy

MouldyOldDough said:

Can you drive the HR-V for many miles on battery alone - or is the battery more of an assistance ?

No not really. (not unless you drive really slowly or reverse everywhere, but the ICE will kick in to charge the battery at some point anyway)

It'll use the battery most of the time when under power, but it's not designed like a PHEV that will run on batteries alone miles at a time.

With full hybrids (often called self charging) like the HRV, Jazz and Yaris, the battery and electric motors assist the ICE but the level of assistance varies depending on what's most efficient.

Pulling away from the lights in a straight ICE is probably it's least efficient it can be.
You could use the electric motors to help the ICE which would be more efficient than just ICE alone, like mild hybrids and older full hybrids do.
Or just use the electric motor alone which is more efficient, like the latest full hybrids do.

It may or may not just use the electric motor and battery depending on load, but eventually the battery will need charging and the engine fires up.
It could just charge the battery or if you are accelerating the ICE and electric motor share the work.

Once you are up to speed on a steady cruise, you aren't really generating electricity from regen braking and the traction battery is quite small, so it's not really efficient as it's not going to take you far. So now the ICE takes over.

If you slow down and speed up again, you will benefit from both ICE and electric depending on the level of assistance is thinks it needs and can give to speed back up.

You might on a steady cruise and just want to accelerate to overtake, put your foot down and the ICE increases but the electric motor will assist.

It all depends on what it thinks is the most efficient way.

Obviously there other factors that get in the way of best efficiency, like heating and air con which place a demand of the electrical system, but generally they will run particularly efficiently around town. They love slowish, stop start trips as they regen a lot and pull away again on what they have recouped.

On long trips there are pretty comparable with similar modern ICE's, maybe a touch better as the level of electrical assistance either isn't available or isn't available as much, but the ICE part of the hybrid system tends to run more efficiently than an straight ICE anyway (in an Atkinson cycle rather than an Otto cycle)

Manufacturers like Toyota have been refining this system for near a quarter of a century now and have got pretty good at it. I think Toyota are on their 5th generation hybrid system.

It's something the Japanese are noted for. Good engineering to start then constant improvement. They even have a word for it, Kaizen.

born_again

knightstyle said:

Sometimes when we start the petrol engine comes on immediately and sometimes it takes a mile or so before it comes on, only notice it if the radio is off as the engine is so quiet. It all depends on the state of charge.

Will be either due to heating car or cooling.

sk2402005

You have stated no ev, any particular reason?

If you can park and charge outside your house, the saving in running costs is huge  - you get a free charger too.

I recently went through this for my brother, and going through the numbers EV was an absolte no brainer on teh motability scheme.

He went with a Skoda Enyak in the end, he has said hes spent about £30 on electricity in about 3 months wheras he would have spent £150 on diesel previously in the same period. - he even tows a trailer tent with it.