Renovate or demolish?

propertyhunter

Hi all, 

Currently speaking to architects about renovating my house, after waiting a while to save the  budget of 400k (3 bed detached Zone 6 London). One architect mentioned that with the budget I have and plans I envisaged for the house, that it would be better to demolish the house and build it from scratch. He estimates that it could cost me a similar amount, given a 're-build' is VAT exempt for construction materials and labour (2000 sq ft house).

I have significant reservations about this - mainly that a new build is likely to go significantly out of scope. I'm also getting quotes for a new build from other sources to verify the architect's suggestion, based on plans for another address where they've decided to knock down the house (same template as mine) and re-build so its a perfect comparable. I'm also going to contact the architect overseeing that project (I can't speak to the owners as they're not living there as the house is unliveable).  

I know the pros of a new build. However, what are other's experiences of building from scratch and what disadvantages could I be overlooking other than spiralling costs? I assume both renovations and re-builds are stressful, so am accepting that either way.

Thanks

GrumpyDil

Can't comment on your scenario but we had exactly the same 20 years ago where we had a builder look at making some fairly significant alterations to a property and were told it would make more sense economically to pull the house down and start from scratch.  

The numbers did pretty much show that although we didn't progress for other reasons.

stuart45

I've worked on both new build and renovations, and I'd say in general the budget is much more predictable on a new build. People often find with large renovations the budget spirals up well beyond what they imagined.

WIAWSNB

Couldn't a renovation equally spiral out of control, pricewise? 
Ok, I guess you can still live in a renovation, but if it cannot be completed, then you are equally stuffed.
How 'fixed' can they make any quote, either for reno or new build?
It's a toughie, but as you realise, the advantages of going 'new' are legion. The only reason I can think of for reno instead, is originality, but I'm guessing that isn't really an issue?
Ok, I'm going to suggest that of the two routes, going 'new' is almost certainly a more predictable route, where there should be no, or few, 'surprises'. Renovations - complex ones (and at £400k, it must surely be?) - are often plagued with unexpecteds, with the potential of costs increasing. Is that a reasonable comment? 
A dilemma. But a first-world one

stuart45

It's mainly underground that's unpredictable on new builds. Once you're up to DPC it's gets easier. 
With renovations it's loads of things. 

MyRealNameToo

Agree with others, spiralling costs certainly happen with major renovations too. Until you start ripping stuff out there is a lot more unknowns and lots of unplanned additional works can be identified. New builds are more predictable once you are out the ground as long as you dont start messing about with the design and you have planned to used appropriate trades rather than these folks who think they can DIY a load of it and then end up hiring people to correct their mistakes and takeover delivery. 

Doozergirl

£400k at £2,000 a square metre in London isn't going to buy you a grand design of a new build.  You have to take demolition costs into account as well.  

If you're okay with that... 

Just how much renovation are you looking to do?   Is it all reno or are there extensions too? How old is the existing house?  

I think it depends on your expectations and just how bad the existing house is.  And is your architect one that manages costs?  Because architects aren't taught the price of anything, so unless they are managing builds, I'd be speaking to builders about likely costs before paying for full plans.  

I agree with Stuart45 that any surprises with a new build are in the ground.  Once you get out, it is much plainer sailing.  I'm just not convinced there's any potential saving, but with no plans, it's hard to guess.  

gzoom

We have literally just been through this. The plans were to renovate and add new dormer suite to our 1960s 4 bed bungalow.

Original idea was add pad foundations and than build up the existing walls. But we essentially ended up having to demolish 90% of the original building due to issues uncovered when doing ground works etc!!

So it would have been easier/quicker to demolish and rebuild, though not massively cheaper (VAT reclaim aside).

Coastwise we paid £2300/sq meter all in from drawings to completion. That included a new £40k kitchen and over 100sq meters of aluminium framed glazing.

If you did work your self and went for cheaper fixings I recon £2000/sq meter is just about possible still. But that's just the build costs, if you don't own the property you need to add in purchase costs of land/existing house.

Best tip on budgeting at the planing stage though I came across.....Take you best guestimates now, double it, and you will probably be not far off the actual total build cost.

The builder originally quoted us 8 months for the project, in reality it took 18 months. We've been back in for 12 months now, one of the best things we've done in our lives.

I'm already planning the retirement build project to start sometime in 2045

GDB2222

Doozergirl said:

£400k at £2,000 a square metre in London isn't going to buy you a grand design of a new build.  You have to take demolition costs into account as well.  

If you're okay with that... 

Just how much renovation are you looking to do?   Is it all reno or are there extensions too? How old is the existing house?  

I think it depends on your expectations and just how bad the existing house is.  And is your architect one that manages costs?  Because architects aren't taught the price of anything, so unless they are managing builds, I'd be speaking to builders about likely costs before paying for full plans.  

I agree with Stuart45 that any surprises with a new build are in the ground.  Once you get out, it is much plainer sailing.  I'm just not convinced there's any potential saving, but with no plans, it's hard to guess.  

When I asked about new build costs on this forum a few months ago, I think £3k per sq m was thought realistic in London. We're still going through planning at the moment, so I don't have any actual quotes yet. 

My vague feeling is that builders are not as busy at the moment?

propertyhunter

Re: the feasibility of 400k to re-build the house - I don't believe the architect who told me this. I think it'd be closer to £1 million. I just want to add 77 sq m2 of new extension (wraparound, 2-stories on the side) and renovate the existing house. I think that's doable. And if it's not, some rooms can be undecorated/one bathroom not fitted and can be done over time.

I'm struggling to find a decent architect at the moment to get this off the ground though. No responses to emails, or no follow up after an initial call. I am aware that I will need QS input before progressing to council planning submission to avoid progressing with something that isn't financially feasible.