British Gas / Centrica / Hive won't honour substantial prize win - what can I do?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grumpy_chap said:

I thought about that as well.  In short, gambling wins cannot be enforced.

I think there may be a simpler reason why the prize may not be enforceable.  A contract requires offer and acceptance.  A contract also requires a consideration by both parties.  A free to enter competition seems to be without consideration on the part of the entrant/winner.

It seems complex to me but appears to be covered under, 335 in particular:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/part/17

Explanatory notes states:

 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/notes/division/5/3/15/5#:~:text=Equally, any winnings must be,be enforceable as a debt.

This Part deals with the legality and enforcement of gambling contracts. As a result of the sections in this Part, contracts made for gambling purposes are to be treated similarly to other contracts. In particular, any debts that arise from gambling will be capable of enforcement in the same way as any other personal or business debts. All statutory provisions which prevented such contracts from being enforced are repealed by the Act. However, the Commission is given power to void betting contracts in certain circumstances. These powers (set out in this Part) are intended to promote the licensing objectives (under Part 1) and enable the Commission to take specific action if it is satisfied that a bet was substantially unfair.

nator

Alderbank said:

The T&Cs say (5.2) that assessment of the property size and the corresponding Heat Pump size will be conducted by a qualified professional selected by the Promoter. 

One of the assessor's objections seems to be radiator size, which is a common issue because of the limited temp rise achieved by an ASHP compared with a gas boiler.

OP, do you have a professional assessment, which includes a proper room-by-room heat loss survey, to say that the Samsung 8kW heat pump will be adequate for your home without upgrading to larger radiators?

BG are clear that they intend to use your actual installation in their ads.
They do not want you saying the house is always cold, nor do they want you to say you had to spend thousands of pounds extra on larger more intrusive radiators.

I don't have an assessment, no, but they carried one out and said verbally it would be ok.

born_again

eskbanker said:

nator said:

I have gone back to them repetedly, their explanations are inadequate, they keep adding more reasons that don't match the conversation we had on site, none of the issues they mention cannot be overcome and I've offered to pay for any abnormals.

But have they expressly made the connection between these issues and the relevant clauses of the qualifying criteria they may rely on?

In a more general context, I don't think it's unusual for companies to overrule what their site surveyors say in front of customers, so in itself that discrepancy isn't necessarily significant.

Or they do not want to get into a argument on site. Could be once back & costing it all out, that it was not a feasible install.

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I thought about that as well.  In short, gambling wins cannot be enforced.

I think there may be a simpler reason why the prize may not be enforceable.  A contract requires offer and acceptance.  A contract also requires a consideration by both parties.  A free to enter competition seems to be without consideration on the part of the entrant/winner.

It seems complex to me but appears to be covered under, 335 in particular:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/part/17

Explanatory notes states:

 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/notes/division/5/3/15/5#:~:text=Equally, any winnings must be,be enforceable as a debt.

This Part deals with the legality and enforcement of gambling contracts. As a result of the sections in this Part, contracts made for gambling purposes are to be treated similarly to other contracts. In particular, any debts that arise from gambling will be capable of enforcement in the same way as any other personal or business debts. All statutory provisions which prevented such contracts from being enforced are repealed by the Act. However, the Commission is given power to void betting contracts in certain circumstances. These powers (set out in this Part) are intended to promote the licensing objectives (under Part 1) and enable the Commission to take specific action if it is satisfied that a bet was substantially unfair.

But does the Gambling Act cover competitions which are free to enter?

I thought the Act covered "gaming" which essentially covered certain activities where the gambler/gamer put at risk a "stake" in the hope of winning back more.

That's what I thought, but I don't know for sure.

GingerTim

Try https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK for legal advice?

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I thought about that as well.  In short, gambling wins cannot be enforced.

I think there may be a simpler reason why the prize may not be enforceable.  A contract requires offer and acceptance.  A contract also requires a consideration by both parties.  A free to enter competition seems to be without consideration on the part of the entrant/winner.

It seems complex to me but appears to be covered under, 335 in particular:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/part/17

Explanatory notes states:

 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/notes/division/5/3/15/5#:~:text=Equally, any winnings must be,be enforceable as a debt.

This Part deals with the legality and enforcement of gambling contracts. As a result of the sections in this Part, contracts made for gambling purposes are to be treated similarly to other contracts. In particular, any debts that arise from gambling will be capable of enforcement in the same way as any other personal or business debts. All statutory provisions which prevented such contracts from being enforced are repealed by the Act. However, the Commission is given power to void betting contracts in certain circumstances. These powers (set out in this Part) are intended to promote the licensing objectives (under Part 1) and enable the Commission to take specific action if it is satisfied that a bet was substantially unfair.

That's for gambling, this was a competition.

The ASA states 'Prize competitions, unlike lotteries, do not need a Gambling Act licence.'

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/promotional-marketing-lotteries.html

Boohoo

What were the t& C's  when you entered the comp and did you sign anything.?

Just wanted to know if they have changed.

There is a clause in 8.1 in the T& C'S posted on here about the promoter being able to null and void and other things to get out of awarding the prize, is that legal?

marcia_

libra10 said:

It's worth contacting the ASA.  They cover many areas, and their website explains what they can help with.

https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html

Good luck

 I recommend contacting this organisation. Im a comper and had a prize worth more than £200 withheld for unknown reasons. The ASA contacted them and i had my prize in a week. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I thought about that as well.  In short, gambling wins cannot be enforced.

I think there may be a simpler reason why the prize may not be enforceable.  A contract requires offer and acceptance.  A contract also requires a consideration by both parties.  A free to enter competition seems to be without consideration on the part of the entrant/winner.

It seems complex to me but appears to be covered under, 335 in particular:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/part/17

Explanatory notes states:

 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/notes/division/5/3/15/5#:~:text=Equally, any winnings must be,be enforceable as a debt.

This Part deals with the legality and enforcement of gambling contracts. As a result of the sections in this Part, contracts made for gambling purposes are to be treated similarly to other contracts. In particular, any debts that arise from gambling will be capable of enforcement in the same way as any other personal or business debts. All statutory provisions which prevented such contracts from being enforced are repealed by the Act. However, the Commission is given power to void betting contracts in certain circumstances. These powers (set out in this Part) are intended to promote the licensing objectives (under Part 1) and enable the Commission to take specific action if it is satisfied that a bet was substantially unfair.

That's for gambling, this was a competition.

The ASA states 'Prize competitions, unlike lotteries, do not need a Gambling Act licence.'

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/promotional-marketing-lotteries.html

I don't think not needing a licences is the same as not being covered by the Act.

Some activities can be done without a license, some require a local authority license and some require a license from the Gambling Commission itself.

Happy to be corrected if there is a source that says any activities which don't need a license are exempt from the Gambling Act (including the Act itself)   

Edit, the Gambling Commission says

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-and-players/guide/page/free-draws-and-prize-competitions

There are two types of free draw:

the first type is where all entries are free.

.....

You do not need a licence or permission to run a free draw or prize competition as long as they are being ran in a way that meets the requirements of the Gambling Act 2005.

So the Act appears to apply at least in some respect but as above I don't know if all of it, or specifically paragraph 335, does with all free entry draws. 

Okell said:
But does the Gambling Act cover competitions which are free to enter?

I thought the Act covered "gaming" which essentially covered certain activities where the gambler/gamer put at risk a "stake" in the hope of winning back more.

That's what I thought, but I don't know for sure.

As above don't know but you'd hope Hive (or may CAB) would if no one here does  

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I thought about that as well.  In short, gambling wins cannot be enforced.

I think there may be a simpler reason why the prize may not be enforceable.  A contract requires offer and acceptance.  A contract also requires a consideration by both parties.  A free to enter competition seems to be without consideration on the part of the entrant/winner.

It seems complex to me but appears to be covered under, 335 in particular:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/part/17

Explanatory notes states:

 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/notes/division/5/3/15/5#:~:text=Equally, any winnings must be,be enforceable as a debt.

This Part deals with the legality and enforcement of gambling contracts. As a result of the sections in this Part, contracts made for gambling purposes are to be treated similarly to other contracts. In particular, any debts that arise from gambling will be capable of enforcement in the same way as any other personal or business debts. All statutory provisions which prevented such contracts from being enforced are repealed by the Act. However, the Commission is given power to void betting contracts in certain circumstances. These powers (set out in this Part) are intended to promote the licensing objectives (under Part 1) and enable the Commission to take specific action if it is satisfied that a bet was substantially unfair.

That's for gambling, this was a competition.

The ASA states 'Prize competitions, unlike lotteries, do not need a Gambling Act licence.'

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/promotional-marketing-lotteries.html

I don't think not needing a licences is the same as not being covered by the Act.

Some activities can be done without a license, some require a local authority license and some require a license from the Gambling Commission itself.

Happy to be corrected if there is a source that says any activities which don't need a license are exempt from the Gambling Act (including the Act itself)   

Edit, the Gambling Commission says

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-and-players/guide/page/free-draws-and-prize-competitions

There are two types of free draw:

the first type is where all entries are free.

.....

You do not need a licence or permission to run a free draw or prize competition as long as they are being ran in a way that meets the requirements of the Gambling Act 2005.

So the Act appears to apply at least in some respect but as above I don't know if all of it, or specifically paragraph 335, does with all free entry draws. 

Okell said:
But does the Gambling Act cover competitions which are free to enter?

I thought the Act covered "gaming" which essentially covered certain activities where the gambler/gamer put at risk a "stake" in the hope of winning back more.

That's what I thought, but I don't know for sure.

As above don't know but you'd hope Hive (or may CAB) would if no one here does  

In the explanatory notes you posted the important part is:

However, the Commission is given power to void betting contracts in certain circumstances. These powers (set out in this Part) are intended to promote the licensing objectives (under Part 1) and enable the Commission to take specific action if it is satisfied that a bet was substantially unfair.

No gambling licence is required for a free to enter competition. The Gambling Act does not apply to this instance.