Initial Parking Ltd Fine

bmf_fan

Hi all. I recently entered a car park operated by Initial Parking Ltd in Cornwall whilst trying to find a beach. Myself and my son got out of my car and walked down to where the lifeguards where standing to ask them. They gave me directions and I then got back into my car and left. I was "parked" for 15 minutes (my wife and daughter remained in the car). 
I arrived home a couple of days ago receiving a charge notice in the post. I immediately appealed this calmly outlining my relevant circumstances and they have rejected the claim stating I was over the 10 minute grace period and am therefore in breach of their T's & C's which are clearly displayed in the car park.
I was fully aware this was a "pay and display" car park but unfortunately didn't notice the ANPR. 
Really annoyed by this - Should I pay the fine? Any help would be much appreciated.

Gr1pr

Its not a fine,  its an invoice for the driver allegedly breaching the contract on the signs,  but we haven't seen the NTK PCN letter or the signs,  in order to try to give you an answer 

Did you tell Initial who was driving  ?

Read the newbies sticky thread in announcements and check your paperwork against all the terms and conditions 

Clearly not paying for the time on site,  plus going past the consideration period of 10 minutes has caused your problem 

The signs probably mention a payment of up to 1 hour etc, so which location   ?  Fistral beach   ?  Or somewhere else   ?

bmf_fan

Hi. Thanks for responding and apologies for not providing some more detail. The letter is a parking charge notice - notice to keeper and gives the discounted option of £60 if paid within 14 days. Date of notice was 4th August.
I did say I was driving in my appeal (was honest with the circumstances) and my wife and daughter did not get out of the car. The car park in question is Sharrow Bay, PL10 1JW. I've seen on searches that loads of people have been issued a PCN from this company and they operate across a number of car parks in the Cornwall area. I have no doubt that the signage displays the same terms as they reiterated in the rejection my appeal. 10 minutes grace is honestly pathetic but not illegal it seems. It is very sneaky that they use ANPR to catch people out and looking at other sites, there are plenty that have been caught out.
I was in the car park for 15 minutes. The car park is down a rural costal road and there is no where to stop on the road otherwise I would have. It just feels very wrong that companies are allowed to operate in this way.
I was honest in my appeal thinking that actually its resonable to cancel it as stopping for a total of 15 minutes to ask directions is very different to not paying for a ticket and leaving the car for hours but they are obviously not interested and this seems very common from the other posts I've read 😔

Coupon-mad

You don't have a fine. Just ignore Initial.

bmf_fan

Thanks @Coupon-mad I wish I had read the newbies guide here prior to appealing. I (naively) thought that writing my honest circumstances in my online appeal back to them was genuine reason to cancel but I guess not! Problem is I have now effectively admitted to driving the vehicle etc.?

Gr1pr

Chances are that Initial Parking complied with POFA 2012, meaning that you are probably liable as keeper,  regardless of who was driving. Even the not so Smart companies are getting their NTK PVCN letters to comply with Pofa,  it's only took them 13 years,  but Initial Parking probably started out with compliant paperwork 

They would not have cancelled either,  so you would still be in this position of an alleged debt for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property,  non payment and exceeding any consideration period to pay or leave,  typically 5 minutes,  not 10 minutes., but if you had paid in full before leaving,  say for an hour,  you could have fought it 

You need to be aware that the first priority when parking anywhere is checking and complying with the signage,  no other mission is more important in day to day motoring,  especially when cameras catch everything 

There is unlikely to be any valid winning appeal point,  hence why you are told to ignore them

bmf_fan

Thanks @Gr1pr. I appreciate the advise. I certainly will never be making this mistake again!
Very low life way of making money from people but I guess that is the world we live in nowadays!

James_Poisson

Doesn't matter what you wrote in your appeal, they would still reject it they only want money.

Giving the driver details isn't an issue if they have complied with the PoFA anyway.

Not seeing the ANPR isn't a defence, however if they have not signed it as being present on site that is an issue.

If the signage still looks like this it would take 15 minutes to decipher it:

 

Gr1pr

A few years ago I went for a Xmas lunch with family to a restaurant in Manchester,  parked on the restaurant car park in the dark,  tried to see what the Initial signs said about getting free parking as customers,  but the signs were just as wordy and badly lit, realised it could take me 20 minutes to work it out, if at all , so left promptly and parked on a side street nearby. I could have gone inside and spoken to the staff, but would have exceeded the consideration period,  the old 5 minutes rule that was banned a few months ago 

Never been in an Initial car park since

What the OP needs to realise is that its currently an unregulated cowboy industry,  nowhere and nobody is safe,  even shopping trolleys with number plates have attracted pcns

bmf_fan

Thanks all. Totally realise it's an unregulated cowboy industry and will never make the same mistake again. Pathetic that these companies are allowed to operate in this way to be honest.
I'll be sharing as much as I can to hopefully avoid others getting caught out.

Gr1pr

To make a difference,  fill in the current MHCLG government survey for the public , this month, it should help people in the future once the industry is regulated