How to answer insurance form question about wall cracks.

BucketFull

Hi all.

When filling in a form for a quote or renewal for home insurance, the following question is asked.

"Are there any significant cracks in the outside walls of your home?"

The following guidance is provided for the question.

"You only need to tell us about cracks that have affected the main structure of your walls. Please tell us about any cracks that are around 1mm wide or above."

It's confusing! Does the above mean cracks affecting the main structure 'AND' cracks over 1mm wide or does it mean cracks affecting the main structure 'OR' cracks over 1mm wide?

According to the survey report, there is a 'hairline' crack on the exterior. There are also several cracks on the internal plaster. Some were present prior to purchase, some may have appeared afterwards and some have grown in length. I don't know how wide the external crack is. The internal cracks could be 1mm wide or just over. I don't think any of the cracks 'affect the main structure', but then again, what does 'affect the main structure' mean and would any crack that is 1-2 mm in width affect the main structure??

From the information provided above, should my answer to the question be 'yes' or 'no'?

Another thing I'm wondering is, if the cracks are already there (possible signs of subsidence), if there were ever to be a case of subsidence, wouldn't the insurance company simply say that the problem started before taking out their policy (as the cracks were present prior to purchasing the property) and hence, not accept any claim?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

vacheron

I think the first sentence is implicit. 

"You only need to tell us about cracks that have affected the main structure of your walls."

The second sentence then provides detail about which cracks to report. 

MyRealNameToo

BucketFull said:

When filling in a form for a quote or renewal for home insurance, the following question is asked.

"Are there any significant cracks in the outside walls of your home?"

The following guidance is provided for the question.

"You only need to tell us about cracks that have affected the main structure of your walls. Please tell us about any cracks that are around 1mm wide or above."

It's confusing! Does the above mean cracks affecting the main structure 'AND' cracks over 1mm wide or does it mean cracks affecting the main structure 'OR' cracks over 1mm wide?

According to the survey report, there is a 'hairline' crack on the exterior. There are also several cracks on the internal plaster. Some were present prior to purchase, some may have appeared afterwards and some have grown in length. I don't know how wide the external crack is. The internal cracks could be 1mm wide or just over. I don't think any of the cracks 'affect the main structure', but then again, what does 'affect the main structure' mean and would any crack that is 1-2 mm in width affect the main structure??

From the information provided above, should my answer to the question be 'yes' or 'no'?

Another thing I'm wondering is, if the cracks are already there (possible signs of subsidence), if there were ever to be a case of subsidence, wouldn't the insurance company simply say that the problem started before taking out their policy (as the cracks were present prior to purchasing the property) and hence, not accept any claim?

if you had a stud wall with 2mm cracks there would be no need to declare because stud walls, in the UK at least, are not normally structural. 

Yes, if you bought a house with notable cracks and those cracks were deemed due to subsidence then it would be excluded from your policy as they are pre-existing. Presumably you'd have had a survey done to look at the cracks and either determined they arent subsidence or acknowledge they could be and therefore got the property for a price that reflects its subsidence issue. 

Annemos

Some points:  I am not an Expert but I had my own Subsidence claim due to Tree Roots. 

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There have been several Ombudsman comments in Cases, that Homeowners are not experts in Subsidence and so may not always recognise the signs of it. 

And also that one of the differences with Subsidence is that ongoing damage may indeed predate a Claim. That is the very nature of Subsidence (So unlike other claims, Subsidence claims should not be intrinsically excluded due to the pre-existing damage clause.)

What they are looking for is.....

1   Has the home always been insured by the homeowner. 

2  Is the downwards damage being reported in this Subsidence Claim actually STILL ONGOING? (If it isn't then the Insurance Company can say it is not their problem to cover.)  

3  Has the Homeowner to the best of their ability, answered the Cracking question truthfully. 


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When one takes out a Policy, one has to answer the questions accurately and truthfully. 

The structure of your building as you see it, is all the main brickwork walls outside. And down under the Damp Course, as far down as you can see. Cracks exceeding 1mm. Mine is not plaster outside, but I suppose the same will apply if you can see cracking in the Plaster. 

As your survey has mentioned a hairline crack outside, I personally would be a bit reluctant not to mention it. If you do have to submit a claim, they can ask to see that Buyer's Survey and raise why you had not done anything about it, as the crack has got wider, if it has got wider. Then they can start challenging you over providing false information and voiding the Policy etc etc.  So the earliest you do this declaration, the better. 

But by mentioning it now, I think this would mean you are practically going to have to open up a Subsidence Claim right now before this Policy ends. (You have hardly got time to consult a Structural Engineer to advise at this stage what it might be, if anything.) 


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Other points. I think it is generally recognised now that 2025 is a Surge year for Subsidence Claims. August is a prime time for claims to be submitted, as fibrous Tree roots go under foundations and suck out the moisture from CLAY soil. 

Are you on a Clay Soil? Is your garden exhibiting cracks? Do you have any vegetation and Trees close to your home. A lot of bushes etc right next to the home. Or large Trees, under about 15 meters away? 

(Or could there be a drain leak or water main leak in that area of the cracking.) 

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Last thing. Stay with the same Insurer now. And if you do have a Subsidence Claim open and ongoing they also cannot drop you from cover during that process. And they should also continue to cover you after the Claim is closed, if it was a valid Subsidence Claim. 

Also if they do open up a claim for you and it is then decided it is NOT subsidence, then there are other FOS cases where the central database for the Insurance Industry is then adjusted to show a different wording, so it is not listed as a Subsidence Claim. 


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Annemos

Just to add, then ......  worry if you do have outside cracking which is greater than 1mm. (For reporting to the Insurer).

And even if you think the cracking is less than 1mm. Please go round all your house now and take photos of the exterior walls. Hairline cracks you can see etc. So you do have evidence why you did not report them. 

Annemos

Apologies for thoughts popping into my head.... the width of a 5p coin is 1.7 mm,  if that is any help. 

BucketFull

Thanks for the replies.

I have a few questions, but for now, the following sounds quite worrying!

Yes, if you bought a house with notable cracks and those cracks were deemed due to subsidence then it would be excluded from your policy as they are pre-existing.

So if the house were to sink tomorrow, I'd be homeless with a pile of rubble to have to borrow the money from somewhere to clear up/make safe (as I'm assuming it would be considered a danger) and remain in an ever-increasing debt for the rest of my life? Or have I not understood things correctly?

Can a property where signs of subsidence exist already never be insured for subsidence?

But by mentioning it now, I think this would mean you are practically going to have to open up a Subsidence Claim right now before this Policy ends.

What are the consequences of changing to a different insurance company (and selecting 'yes' for the question about cracks)?

For information, I have looked at the exterior wall on several occasions but never been able to see the crack that has been mentioned in the survey.

I have not yet had a structural engineer investigate the cracks or potential for subsidence (soil, drains, etc).

Thanks.

Annemos

Buildings do not suddenly collapse BucketFull... unless they are over a Sinkhole.

Subsidence is a very gradual process. It is not normally a danger to you or anyone else, as long as the cause is ascertained and the remedy and it is then rectified within a normal length of time. And Subsidence Claims can take 3 or 4 years to do the monitoring, get any trees removed(if advised to that) and then get repairs done etc etc. 


Your Survey seems to say that it was just a hairline Crack when you purchased the property. And furthermore, I presume that Survey did NOT raised potential Subsidence as an issue in that survey.... OR advise you to get it looked at? Then that will mean you are on stronger ground for not having acted until now, if the Surveyor did not state those two things. 


(Edit... as long as the Surveyor did not state those two things in the Survey. And you have reported any of the 1mm cracks or more now, then the fact that they might determine that the Subsidence had actually started before your current Policy, will not be an issue.  As I said before, if that Survey did not raise those 2 concerns......then as long as the home has always been insured, the Subsidence damage is still continuing in this current Policy AND you have answered any questions correctly when taking out the Policy, then you should be OK with a claim being upheld. 

If they deem that there is now no current movement and it was historic damage, then they will not cover a claim. As that will indeed be classed as pre-existing, damage, with no damage actually having occurred in this Policy.) 


The issue you now have, is that if you know the crack and any other outside crack outside is now 1mm plus, then you will be expected to raise this with the current Insurer. 

If you mention to a new Insurer on a new quote that you have cracking, they will likely decline to give you a policy. 


That is why Homeowners should be constantly monitoring their property for cracks and informing the Insurer as soon as possible if there seems to be a problem. But people leave the potential problem until just before Renewal. 

If the Homeowner has more time before renewal, they can get their own Structural Engineer in for advice on what might be the cause of any cracking before making a decision. 


Take a look at that Purchase Survey and see where they have indicated the crack is. Take binoculars if necessary or a ladder (PLEASE be careful if you do that!)  Can you see any crack more than 1mm there or anywhere else? 


A Homeowner near me has just had a Sale of his Home fall through, because the Surveyor of the prospective purchaser has raised Subsidence as an issue. That's where these things often come to light.... and it is going to be down to that Original Owner to make a Subsidence Claim. 


Once a property has Subsidence that has not been dealt with and is not falling under any Insurance Claim, then a Homeowner would either have to sell it as it is, at a reduced price, for example to a Builder. Or they will have to take charge of the investigations and repairs themselves. 

BucketFull

Thanks.

And furthermore, I presume that Survey did NOT raised potential Subsidence as an issue in that survey.... OR advise you to get it looked at?

Yes, an inspection of the drainage system by a Structural Engineer was recommended in the report. I did ask one Engineer but they said they didn't deal with subsidence issues due to the enormous issues with insurance companies regarding subsidence claims. As you have probably guessed, I am not very familiar with how all this works!

MyRealNameToo

BucketFull said:

Thanks for the replies.

I have a few questions, but for now, the following sounds quite worrying!

Yes, if you bought a house with notable cracks and those cracks were deemed due to subsidence then it would be excluded from your policy as they are pre-existing.

So if the house were to sink tomorrow, I'd be homeless with a pile of rubble to have to borrow the money from somewhere to clear up/make safe (as I'm assuming it would be considered a danger) and remain in an ever-increasing debt for the rest of my life? Or have I not understood things correctly?

Can a property where signs of subsidence exist already never be insured for subsidence?

Ignoring the property falling down overnight doesnt happen yes however realistically you would declare yourself bankrupt to ultimately walk away from the debt. 

Insurance doesnt cover every possible thing that can happen in life, policies will clearly state what they do and dont cover. Most common exclusions are poor workmanship/defective design, pre-existing problems, war/terrorism and fraud but depending on the quality of your cover there can be many more. 

So buy a house thats already falling into a sink hole the insurer won't pay to fix it up for you, likewise a new build house where the developers "forgot" to lay any foundations or per a complaint recently where your property is targeted by people incorrectly believing you are involved in the supply of arms to Israel which is therefore deemed terrorism. 

Hence why buying a property you need to ensure you know what you are buying and have appropriate surveys done and then continue to maintain and monitor your property. You can't act carelessly just assuming the insurer will pick up the pieces to save you having to have a survey etc

BucketFull

Thanks for the reply.

I had a building survey done before buying the property which did include various issues such as the cracks (it is a pre-1900 house which possibly accounts for many of the issues). Due to personal circumstances, I didn't feel I had much choice but to go ahead with the purchase.

To answer the previous questions, I had to search 'stud wall' but I am not sure because many of the cracks are on the ceiling also.

Yes, my next step is to have a Structural Engineer inspection.

I used a comparison site, which asked the question about the cracks, which I chose 'yes' for, but when it redirects to the insurer's own website, it also makes you fill out another form and that didn't ask a question about cracks, so does the insurer need to be informed separately about the cracks also?

I don't know if the house is on clay soil. The rear had vegetation but I have had it removed and maintain it with weedkiller. There are no trees close by or within 15 meters. The neighbour's vegetation is allowed to overgrow.

I don't know if there is a drain leak or water main leak, but the structural survey should investigate this.

Thank you for the advice, I will try to take photos of the cracks.

No reason to apologies, I really appreciate your time and help!

Buildings do not suddenly collapse

That provides some comfort!