Recovery of overpaid benefits from estate.

itscurtains

Hi,

I am looking for some advice on DWP and recovery of overpaid benefits.

I am the Executor of the estate of one of my relatives. They had around £60,000 in cash in bank accounts at the time they passed and also owned a property that they lived in worth around £200,000. Inheritance tax is not an issue.

Since their passing I have become aware that they were in receipt of Pension credits and Council tax benefit (which I believe follows on if you are in receipt of pension credits).

I have obtained grant of probate and the property has an offer of £195,000.

I have now received what looks like a standard letter from DWP saying that they are investigating if any benefits the deceased received were overpaid.

After conducting some research, it appears that my relative may not have been eligible for pension credits for some time, based on the financial limits for pension credits (and therefore Council Tax Benefit). I have provided the estate financial information to DWP but have not yet received a response. The relative was in their mid 90s when they passed and never went out of the front door for a number of years so savings accrued quickly during that time.

I don't have many bank statements but have found some recent documentation and it appears they were receiving pension credits of around £10 p.w. and council tax benefit of around £1200 p.a.. Making an annual total of around £1700 p.a. (but probably lower as we go back in time).

I have no idea when my relative successfully applied for Pension Credits but it may well be shortly after their spouse died around 15 years ago (or may only be a couple of years, I have no idea). The same time scale may be true for Council tax benefit. I have assumed that when they first applied for pension credits they were under the £15,000 limit but their savings built up over time and at some time they should have reported their savings exceeded £15,000 but, it appears, they did not and DWP did not have an update on their financial position.

From what I have read it appears that DWP will request bank statements for my relative. I accept that if they were overpaid for whatever reason then it should be paid back. However, it would be of assistance if I had some idea of what was likely to happen and how much DWP is likely to want back. Also, I am being asked by the beneficiaries (I am not a beneficiary only the Executor) how much they can expect and when. I have informed them I can't release funds at this time as money may have to be paid back to DWP.

Historically can how long ago can they request the statements from? (I think the bank can go back 8 years). Can DWP request, say 15 years? 

If I can only provide 8 years of statements and overpayment of benefits go back longer what will DWP do in these circumstances?

Assuming that my relative exceeded the limit for pension credits some years ago, what are DWP likely to do? Seek recovery for the overpayments for Pension Credits? Seek recovery of Council Tax benefits? 

Are DWP limited to the recovery of the actual amount that was overpaid or wIll there likely be any penalties or interest? 

Assuming I can only get 8 years statements but the relative may have exceeded the limit some time earlier than 8 years ago (say 15 years but it is unclear when that limit was exceeded, as there are no statements for the period) what are DWP likely to do in the circumstances?

Sorry there are so many questions but I have no experience in this scenario but feel it likely that others will have been in the same position.

Any assistance would be most appreciated and thank you in advance for any input.

Keep_pedalling

Given their age at the time of death it is just about possible that she may have been on an indefinite assessed income period (AIP). If that is the case then she would not have needed to report the change in her financial position and nothing would be owed.

AIPs were stopped in 2016 so if she did not apply for PC befor that then that cannot be the case. Her annual statements from DWP should state if her payments were subject to an AIP. Do you have any access these documents. 

I would contact her banks bereavement departments to see how far they can go back. You can only provide the DWP with what the banks can supply you with. 

Jowwie

I would wait and see what DWP ask for before contacting banks since they may charge for providing statements. DWP recovery from estates do not move quickly though. Even if they request 15 years statements, you can only provide what the banks will supply. 

It might be a further 6 months after sending statements before you hear back from DWP based on last year's response times.The estate I dealt with, the DWP part of the process took some 18 months. Some of the saga is recorded here

 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6487517/more-on-delays-but-not-just-probate/p1

If you think the DWP claim could be substantial then I would be advising the beneficiaries that they will have to wait a while. Fingers crossed that she was on AIP.

We had a five figure repayment to make, although that was still less than I expected. No interest or penalty was charged in our case.

itscurtains

Thanks for the responses. I have spoken with a member of the family who says that they think the application for pension credits was not long after the spouse passed so it would have been around 15 years ago but I have found no documentation about it so cannot confirm it was made and successful at that time nor on what basis it was granted. They would have been mid 70s at that time. As far as I am aware DWP never sent any letters or forms to update the financial position. Nobody in the family was aware of any and I feel pretty certain that they would not have been ignored. I am not aware of AIP. I will try to access some correspondence from DWP regarding whether they were on AIP. Having read the posts JOWWIE sent, I am not looking forward to dealing with DWP delays. 

But one piece of good news is it does not appear that there will be any interest or penalties.

Keep_pedalling

The DWP send out a statement for both state pension and PC every year. 

Newly_retired

Just to add to the above that Council Tax Benefit is not dealt with by DWP. It is the local authority. But if the PC claim was legitimate and subject to an AIP, then there would still have been an entitlement to CTB. 

Marcon

itscurtains said:

Thanks for the responses. I have spoken with a member of the family who says that they think the application for pension credits was not long after the spouse passed so it would have been around 15 years ago but I have found no documentation about it so cannot confirm it was made and successful at that time nor on what basis it was granted. They would have been mid 70s at that time. As far as I am aware DWP never sent any letters or forms to update the financial position. Nobody in the family was aware of any and I feel pretty certain that they would not have been ignored. I am not aware of AIP. I will try to access some correspondence from DWP regarding whether they were on AIP. Having read the posts JOWWIE sent, I am not looking forward to dealing with DWP delays. 

But one piece of good news is it does not appear that there will be any interest or penalties.

There's nothing to stop you checking with the bank how far back they can provide statements - they aren't going to charge you for asking that question. Any charge would be actually providing statements.

You do need to be very clear with the beneficiaries that the timescale could be protracted and is outside your control, and you cannot give any estimate of how much they will receive or when. Until you have a better understanding of what's likely to happen, it would probably be too risky to make interim payments. They may be blissfully unaware of the hazards(!) of dealing with DWP in this situation, and possibly desperate to get their hands on their inheritance, so spelling out the issue sympathetically but firmly  might keep the anguish damped down, at least for now.

Newly_retired

Bear in mind that this is a standard DWP letter, based on the amount shown in Probate. This will include the value of the property, which is obviously not going to be taken into account in determining the value of the capital.

My husband battled with the DWP for nearly two years. They kept asking for more statements, but if the bank cannot provide more than 6 years, you cannot send them to DWP. In the end there was nothing owed.

Shelldean

We had this I've mentioned it previously as Keep peddling mentions it's called indefinite assessment period. And it's basically where they was over a certain age when they claimed. It just means they don't need to declare their savings as they increase.


DWP are asking questions as when they applied they had Xx in savings and now they have XXX

Also less and less people will be on this indefinite assessment. So they need to double check.

We did have to supply bank statements and yes they asked for more than the bank had. We just send what we could obtain. This was accepted and no over payment was due